Updated 1939.scn file that will prevent turn 1 Dyle

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Here is the new 1939.scn file that has a slightly altered Allied initial setup. In this setup the Allies need to spend turn 1 to get into an offensive position against Belgium. Taking Belgium on turn 1 with a Dyle attack is now almost impossible.

The file 1939.scn should be placed in the data\scenario folder. Make sure you backup the original 1939.scn file first.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Here is how the 1939 setup looked like before:


Here is how the 1939 setup looks like in the updated 1939.scn:


There are no changes at all to the number of units. All that is changed is the start location of some of the UK and French units. The initial setup is a bit more defensive than before.

[Blathergut]

Is this now the "official" GS3 start version? If 3.0 is updated at some point, will this be included?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I hope so, but it would be nice to get some feedback from people running with this version first to be sure the Dyle situation is dealt with. E. g. we want to see how a turn 2 Dyle with the new setup works and how the Axis can respond. It would be nice to see how an Axis 1939 blitz of the low countries will work too.

We won't make an official patch until we get more feedback from GS v3.0 games. There could be bugs somewhere we haven't found or game balance situations we want to slightly alter.

[Blathergut]

Was the British sub removed from the game? I don't see it anywhere around GB.

ah...found it...eyes and brain too olde...

[Morris]

YES , i think this can solve the Dyle plan problem now !

But It won't change the game unbalance situation at present .....

[Peter Stauffenberg]

YES , i think this can solve the Dyle plan problem now !

But It won't change the game unbalance situation at present .....

I don't think there is a game imbalance. How can you conclude with that after just one game where you got a great start with mud in October / November 1939? Play more games with both the Axis and Allies before making conclusions.

When you speak of a game imbalance you need to tell WHERE the imbalance is. The focus has been on the Dyle and that if the Axis got off to a bad start then they would end in problems. If you won't see many Dyle's then you can expect the Axis to storm the low countries and France in 1939 or 1940 and take Paris no later than June 1940. That is no worse than in GS v2.1.

The Axis is more powerful in GS v3.0 than in GS v2.1. Most of the changes have helped the Axis slightly particularly the sub warfare. Try it out as the Axis and see how you can frustrate the Allies with subs evading retaliations quite often.

[pk867]

This file can be used with the Mac version.
Right-click on the app and 'Show Package Contents', Path is Contents/Resources/Java/data/scenario

1939.scn.zip

[GogTheMild]

The Axis is more powerful in GS v3.0 than in GS v2.1.

As a 3.0 beta tester can I disagree. I would say that the totality of the changes from 2.1 have arguably been neutral, but in my opinion have moved things very slightly in favour of the Allies.

[Blathergut]

The changes, as I've puttered through a couple openings:

-mean the Allies face the German airpower when they attack Belgium on turn 2 (since it shouldn't be needed in Poland)
-means Holland can be attacked by the Germans on turn 2...they may not have much there, but attacking reduced 3-step units as opposed to the full-strength ones if you attack Holland after the Allies invade Belgium, makes a world of difference

[Peter Stauffenberg]

The Axis is more powerful in GS v3.0 than in GS v2.1.

As a 3.0 beta tester can I disagree. I would say that the totality of the changes from 2.1 have arguably been neutral, but in my opinion have moved things very slightly in favour of the Allies.

Can you please describe which changes made are in favor of the Allies?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

The changes, as I've puttered through a couple openings:

-mean the Allies face the German airpower when they attack Belgium on turn 2 (since it shouldn't be needed in Poland)
-means Holland can be attacked by the Germans on turn 2...they may not have much there, but attacking reduced 3-step units as opposed to the full-strength ones if you attack Holland after the Allies invade Belgium, makes a world of difference

I don't think the latter is true. The Axis move first in a turn so that means if the Allies DoW Belgium on turn 2 then the Germans will have to DoW Holland on turn 3. Then the Dutch will show up at full strength unless we make a code change where we allow 1 turn difference before these countries get mobilized.

At least if you get fair weather in turn 3 you can still storm into Holland and use the Luftwaffe to clear the path to Belgium. Hague might not fall, but you should be able to get a wide
front line towards the Allied units in Belgium including taking Antwerp and Liege. That means you can harass the Allies a bit during the winter before you can resume a full offensive in the Spring. If you get 2 fair weather turns in October / November you should be able to threaten Brussels in 1939 or capture Hague so Holland falls.

A turn 2 Dyle should create some headache for the Axis player, but he should be able to overcome it unless he gets unlucky with the weather. If he gets normal weather then the Allied player will pay the price for the Dyle with 25% lower convoy strength, no USLL destroyer, 6% lower US war effort etc.

We have to make sure we don't alter the situation so much so a turn 2 Dyle becomes completely useless as a strategy. I think you need to playtest to see how you can cope with a turn 2 Dyle as the Axis.

[Blathergut]

You attack Holland on turn 2, before Dyle can happen. Use 3 infantry + a mech + the strat. One inf and the mech rail in on turn one.

The thing I don't understand is why, if I don't conquer Holland in that turn 2, and the Allies invade Belgium, they face reduced units, but if I make it in and conquer Holland in that one turn, the Allies face full units if they invade Belgium.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I don't think invading Holland on turn 2 is such a great idea unless you can also invade Belgium. Then you do the blitzkrieg attack I have shown in a previous thread.

If you only invade Holland then Belgium will be at full strength later when you invade Belgium. Or do you think about keeping Hague alive through the winter so you can DOW Belgium in the Spring of 1940? That won't help because if you attack the other country on a different turn then the linked country will appear at full strength and with no morale loss.

SO DOW'ing Holland alone on turn 2 and Belgium in the Spring means you will face 10 step Belgian units and no morale loss. I don't see a benefit for the Axis in that.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I have made a slight code change so Dutch units will always spawn at reduced strength if Belgium has been attacked by the Allies. That should make it easier for Germany to rush into Holland and Belgium after a Dyle.

[Blathergut]

Is the code change something that can be done to the '39 file? Or is it something in the game that will have to wait until 3.01 is released sometime? The Allies invading Belgium probably cost the Germans some of what they gain from 3 extra PP from Belgium eventually by having to attack full strength units in Holland. The Hague will not be German for sometime once the weather worsens.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

You need GS v3.01 to have Holland spawn at reduced strength if Belgium is attacked by the Allies. That version is open for beta testing if you send me a PM with your email address.

[Blathergut]

k...will see...new version of Field of Glory PC out tonight finally...new version of Qvadriga coming soon...XCom Enemy Within out tomorrow....

These little France games are the first time I've played in eons. Actually enjoying it, so I just might take you up soon. Three weeks Xmas holidays aren't that far away!