Why does anti-air need to move to shoot?

[the_iron_duke]

Why does anti-air need to move to shoot? Why can't it shoot at aircraft from the hex it's in (assuming it's in range and unless it's directly beneath the aircraft, in which case it can shoot without moving)?

[KeldorKatarn]

One of the last few patches changed the behavior. We already have 2 threads about this I believe but here again in short:

Previously it wasn't possible to move an Anti Air unit below an enemy plane since the game always defaulted to the "shoot" cursor there.
To make that possible the game was changed. The unit will now always move if the air/ground switch in the UI is set to 'ground' (ground units are big, air units are small) and will always shoot if possible if set to 'air' (air units big, ground units small).
So if you want to shoot a plane that is in a position that you can also move to, you need to switch to "air" mode first. Try that

[the_iron_duke]

Ok, thanks. I still don't quite understand the reasons behind it, but I checked and if I toggled between Air and Ground surfaces I was able to shoot without moving.

[Tarrak]

Ok, thanks. I still don't quite understand the reasons behind it, but I checked and if I toggled between Air and Ground surfaces I was able to shoot without moving.

A little example to show you why the change was needed. Imagine following situation:

In the badly damage scout a VIP is trying to escape the battlefield. I forgot to set the enemy fighters to very low strength so they can kill him as well but lets assume they can't for whatever reasons. Obviously if the bomber catches it next turn it dies. The only unit able to kill the bomber is our buffed up 8.8er. The problem is in the old behavior model you can't move it in range of the bomber as it will ALWAYS try to shoot at the fighter above the only field it can go to to get in range of the bomber. With the new and changed behavior you have the option to do so.

[the_iron_duke]

I kind of understand but I don't know why a solution can't be found that doesn't require toggling the air/ground surface layer. So maybe I don't understand that well...

[Rudankort]

I kind of understand but I don't know why a solution can't be found that doesn't require toggling the air/ground surface layer. So maybe I don't understand that well...

In most cases you have just one useful action per hex, and you trigger the action by clicking that hex. But if there is a conflict (two actions possible on the same hex), you need to tell the game which action to choose. To use ground/air switch looked natural, because in this case movement happens on the ground layer, while attack happens in the air layer (where enemy plane is located). Do you have an alternative suggestion?

[danijocker90]

The problem comes when you are defending with an AAA not an AAA/AT like the 88. When trying to defend an airfield with Poland, for example, i have to leave my airfield to shoot a near aircraft and the scouts etc can capture it...dont like that since if i can shoot holding the hex i can attack air units and counterattack later the ground units. Add an artillery near and you have a little bunker.

[bebro]

When you're in firing range already, isn't it enough just to switch to air (map) mode to attack that air unit?

[Tarrak]

The problem comes when you are defending with an AAA not an AAA/AT like the 88. When trying to defend an airfield with Poland, for example, i have to leave my airfield to shoot a near aircraft and the scouts etc can capture it...dont like that since if i can shoot holding the hex i can attack air units and counterattack later the ground units. Add an artillery near and you have a little bunker.

Sorry i do not understand what you mean. If you are in range you can always shot without having to move. The new system is not forcing you to move. Just use the toggle ground/air layer button to set to air and shot without moving.

[danijocker90]

I mean that not all units have the switch button, right? not much use fixed AAAs anyway

Edit: ok, maybe a problem of range...nevermind

[bebro]

It's not about the unit's switch ability, but the map's air/land toggle.

If you're in firing range but don't get the option to attack aircraft, switch the map to air view and it should work without moving.

[danijocker90]

oh, thanks ^^

[boredatwork]

The "Yes it still works with 88s" version.

LOOK AT WHAT BUTTON IS BEING PRESSED.

The button I am pressing in the different screen shots is the circled "(TAB) TOGGLE GROUND/AIR SURFACE" button near the Purchase "$" button, NOT the "SWITCH (W)" button above "clear (X,Y)" that switches an 88 between AT and AA modes.

The 8.8cm Flak is in AA mode in both screen shots - I'm not touching the "Switch (W)" mode button.



^ By default when I select any AA, being a ground unit, it defaults to viewing ground units - notice the 2 bunkers are big while the tac bombers above them are small. In this view AA units move by default ***if there is an empty space under the air units.*** Obviously if it can't move under an air unit, either because there is a ground unit or terrain blocking it's path, OR you've already moved it this turn, then it gives you the option to fire by default, which is why I can still target the aircraft over the bunkers, the bunkers preventing me from moving there.



^ Notice in this shot, with my 88 still selected, I've hit the ground/air button and I'm now viewing the air units - the tac bombers are big and the bunkers underneath are small. In this view an AA unit will fire at an aircraft, in this case either the Pe-2 or the fighter, even though there is an empty space under it.