orb

[franck]

I have an interpretation question on the Orb.
in the rules :"fights in any direction with one quarter of its bases, rounded up. Half of these, rounded up, count as front rank bases."

Assuming a 8 bases Pike in orb, contacted by 4 ennemy BG from the 4 different directions, I understand each front fights with 2 dices @ impact and 2 dices @ melee (I know this is unlikely to happen in a game, but this example is just to understand the mecanism).

Assuming the same BG, but with 6 remaining bases only. In case it is contacted also by its 4 different fronts, how many dices does it have against its opponents in melee ? 2/2/2/2 or 2/2/1/1 ?

Franck

[grahambriggs]

Franck I think it is 2/2/2/2.

6/4= 1.5
round up = 2

I know it does not have 8 bases but I think it is only a mechanism.

[franck]

Franck I think it is 2/2/2/2.

6/4= 1.5
round up = 2

I know it does not have 8 bases but I think it is only a mechanism.

Thank you.
This was also what I was told ! But did not find it very logical....
Shooting seems to be a better solution to finish a pike then.

Franck

[philqw78]

No Frank, Orb is 2 bases wide and its 8 bases fight only 2 in each direction. On each side they can be contaced by up to 2 bases (as there can be no overlaps), giving their opponents 4 dice on each side fully contacted

[gozerius]

Impossible. A BG in orb fights with 1/4 of their bases in each direction, with 1/2 rounded up counting as front rank bases. How then can a BG of 8 pike fight all bases in contact if only one counts as a front rank base? Answer: it doesn't. Only one enemy file can fight the Orbed BG per facing at a time. No overlaps means the extra files do not contribute to the combat at all. Or is Orb even more useless than it appears at first blush?

[bbotus]

Impossible. A BG in orb fights with 1/4 of their bases in each direction, with 1/2 rounded up counting as front rank bases. How then can a BG of 8 pike fight all bases in contact if only one counts as a front rank base? Answer: it doesn't. Only one enemy file can fight the Orbed BG per facing at a time. No overlaps means the extra files do not contribute to the combat at all. Or is Orb even more useless than it appears at first blush?

Good point. So if i have a BG of 12 bases in orb, then 3 would fight in each direction with 2 front and 1 rear rank and now the enemy could fight in each direction with 2 files. OK. Makes sense.

[grahambriggs]

No Frank, Orb is 2 bases wide and its 8 bases fight only 2 in each direction. On each side they can be contaced by up to 2 bases (as there can be no overlaps), giving their opponents 4 dice on each side fully contacted

That is a weakness in the orb rule. What Phil means is that Franck's orb fights 2 bases on each side. But if Phil charges it with cavalry on one side the "which bases count in close combat" rules say that front rank bases in front edge contact count (and the second rank also counts) - so Phil gets four bases fighting.

Phils opponent points out that if that's so then he has two bases in contact too and they must be front rank because there they are so he also gets 4 bases. Either that or some of Phil's bases are overlaps and don't count.

I've been asked to rule on this in a competition (final game for the title naturally). The answer I came up with was that they would fight 4 vs 4. I felt that was the only ruling that could satisfy the orb rules and the "who fights" rules, and you could rationalise it in that the cavalry have 'conformed' to the circular formation of the orb. Best I could do, but I was aware at the time that it could be described as "a weak ruling, but stronger than any alternatives". I felt allowing 4 vs 2 would run against the 'no overlaps' rule for orbs.

RBS if you are watching this could do with clarification. The issue is that the 'orb' wording and the "who fights" wording in the close combat section do not align.

[philqw78]

What Phil means is that Franck's orb fights 2 bases on each side. But if Phil charges it with cavalry on one side the "which bases count in close combat" rules say that front rank bases in front edge contact count (and the second rank also counts) - so Phil gets four bases fighting.

Phils opponent points out that if that's so then he has two bases in contact too and they must be front rank because there they are so he also gets 4 bases. Either that or some of Phil's bases are overlaps and don't count.

And I point out that orb only fights with 1/4 of its bases in each direction. My bases are not in overlap but full frontal contact. His bases are also in contact but he doesn't get to count them.

[bbotus]

What Phil means is that Franck's orb fights 2 bases on each side. But if Phil charges it with cavalry on one side the "which bases count in close combat" rules say that front rank bases in front edge contact count (and the second rank also counts) - so Phil gets four bases fighting.

Phils opponent points out that if that's so then he has two bases in contact too and they must be front rank because there they are so he also gets 4 bases. Either that or some of Phil's bases are overlaps and don't count.

And I point out that orb only fights with 1/4 of its bases in each direction. My bases are not in overlap but full frontal contact. His bases are also in contact but he doesn't get to count them.

Here are 2 problems.

In the Impact Phase vs an 8 base orb (2 fighting each direction with 1 front and 1 rear base), there are actually 2 bases in contact with 2 bases. But the Orb rules say only 1 front rank base gets to fight. So are you saying that the charging BG gets to throw 4 dice to 2? That directly violates the Impact rules of engagement.

Second, let's take a pike BG of 4 bases in orb (only 1 front rank and no rear rank in each direction). Formed 2x2 it is only 30mm deep. Following the logic, If attacked to the front there are 2 bases in contact so we'd have to say that the attacker gets 4 dice in melee vs 1 dice for the orb. But If you attacked from the side, the attacker can only get 1 base into contact, so there it would be 2 dice vs 1. Hmmm! That isn't logical since an orb faces all directions equally. The attacker should get the same number of dice no matter which side it attacks.

The fact is that an orb is a special formation with an artificial depiction. It would be weird if we actually turned the bases to face in 4 directions.

I still like gozerius' answer:

Postby gozerius » 15 Oct 2013 14:21
Impossible. A BG in orb fights with 1/4 of their bases in each direction, with 1/2 rounded up counting as front rank bases. How then can a BG of 8 pike fight all bases in contact if only one counts as a front rank base? Answer: it doesn't. Only one enemy file can fight the Orbed BG per facing at a time. No overlaps means the extra files do not contribute to the combat at all......

[philqw78]

Orb needs sorting out