Terra Salvum v.0.22.x

[DewyB]

Was apprehensive after reviewing bonuses for this faction, medium sized world, medium AI, medium alien aggression.

I got the pherapod early on, enjoyed an epic battle to capture a Galeth, as well as a pair of spitters and a queen before wiping out the hive on my continent. Galeth survived the first check, failed the second... very disappointing, queen and one spitter were soon with it in the grave causing me once again to enjoy interacting with the Aliens only to be disappointed. I can see where the aliens would be very formidable and need limits, so the disappointment is checked and shelved, hoping an expansion can revisit this area.

Pollution bonus, eh... the real power in the green here are forests! I was surprised at how much of a difference +1 mineral made to the otherwise bland forest improvement. The -25 penalty on this faction for attacking has all but rendered artillery useless. It hinders this faction greatly, but is manageable and is eventually "countered" by several advances. Snipers and Artillery (as mentioned before) are weak sauce, getting the job done, but tricky. As such I will have to play another game to give a solid report on the combat changes.

Once again the AI has 3-5 cities while I am balancing the output of 12 cities. We just finished interring Heid's remains into the new soil, his citizens seem grateful and we are turning our eyes towards the wasteful Lady Vermillion (also nearby and... untrustworthy). All of the remaining AI seem vigorous and somewhat up to tech, except the poor Solar Dynasty. After "assisting" the good lady, we may have to see about enveloping those fine citizens as well. The AI seems to have done a good job seeking out ruins and wiping up hives. Not much left at this stage of the game (me and Noxium in mech age) but a couple of Aspidoths and one Leviathan I can confirm.

Incidently, the Leviathan SHOULD be the bigger of the two IMHO... but you've already shown me a few new tricks. Case in point... I commented earlier that the armor types were "crowded" in the tech tree. I'm still on the fence about the tech tree in general, but in this game I made a point of researching the first armor (Steel plates) and skipped the next two (titanium and "Zortium"), defeating Heid with Steel Plating and entering the mech age with "Gauss" Armor. My initial plan was to illustrate how "useless" the additional armors are, and I expected to be "Forced" into each tech tree to advance. I was pleasantly surprised to discover each armor PAST Steel HAD a workaround! Not sure if that will hold true thru all random variations, but again, made me THINK! Which is the point, and I salute a job well done there.

All in all, this specific game has been a very fun and well balanced game, and thank you for the opportunity to enjoy it.

[Canute0]

I got the pherapod early on, enjoyed an epic battle to capture a Galeth, as well as a pair of spitters and a queen before wiping out the hive on my continent. Galeth survived the first check, failed the second... very disappointing, queen and one spitter were soon with it in the grave causing me once again to enjoy interacting with the Aliens only to be disappointed. I can see where the aliens would be very formidable and need limits, so the disappointment is checked and shelved, hoping an expansion can revisit this area.

Thats why it is pointless now to capture them. Its much easyer to destroy then to capture them. They will die anyway in 12-20 rounds, And 12-20 rounds arn't much time since you need 4-9 rounds to heal them up.

[SephiRok]

Thanks for the writeup DewyB.

Suggestions about the Xenomorph Pheropod are very welcome, I'm not too happy with it either. The coolest would be if the aliens can permanently stay yours, but that's very unbalanced.

[Canute0]

Yep thats true. But the Aliens arn't very useful after you entered the Mech Era.

My ideas are:
- Splash damage can't convert Aliens, at this way you don't have a mass convert. But when you got Artilery you don't realy need these aliens anyway anymore.
- Best would be to change the Phermopod from a device into a weapon. The weapon don't got any effect on non-aliens but thats the price to convert them. Maybe some research so you can capture any other organic units.
- Converted Aliens get damaged every turn they are outside of fungus. They lost their links to the hive and the healing ability they got from the link. 10-25% max Power damage should be ok.
- no healing bonus from city or fort for all Aliens.
- Converted Aliens use food or minerals instead Credits as upkeep cost.

[SephiRok]

Another idea is to let one unit only have one alien at a time, and removing the pheropod kills the alien.

I think that anything that lets you build up a foreverlasting army from just attacking is going to be inbalanced and the best way to play the game; higher upkeep or whatnot doesn't help.

[DewyB]

For the current release of Pandora I would disable the Pherapod. No other way around it... the early usefulness is negated completely by the double edged sword of random discovery and eventual death of converted aliens. Disabling it removes the temptation AND the disappointment.

Yep thats true. But the Aliens arn't very useful after you entered the Mech Era.

My ideas are:
- Splash damage can't convert Aliens, at this way you don't have a mass convert. But when you got Artilery you don't realy need these aliens anyway anymore.
- Best would be to change the Phermopod from a device into a weapon. The weapon don't got any effect on non-aliens but thats the price to convert them. Maybe some research so you can capture any other organic units.
- Converted Aliens get damaged every turn they are outside of fungus. They lost their links to the hive and the healing ability they got from the link. 10-25% max Power damage should be ok.
- no healing bonus from city or fort for all Aliens.
- Converted Aliens use food or minerals instead Credits as upkeep cost.

All of these are agreed with except the larger sea critters obsolescence and capturing them negates the advances (which greatly balance out Terra Salvum) you get when you kill them. Those techs need to be accessible from the research screen after a kill OR capture. Not needed for the Imperium perhaps, so they can research or not... but crucial for the Hippies.

Also agreed that with the rapid progression of the game Aliens could be very formidable and hard to balance in this release. I'm seeing a balance requiring a separate thread of research to properly interface with the aliens. One complaint/ suggestion is relevant here. I don't see "options" in our tech tree. I see most everything (with a few exceptions) must be researched to progress to sometimes unrelated techs. In this game I really don't have any need for the "recycling centers" or whatever the pollution reduction facility is called. Yet I had to research them to progress to Heavy Mechs. This is just one of the cons vs pros of the random tech tree.

Right now I do not see where there is a place to insert the "tech branch" dedicated to balancing out the Aliens for the overall game.

"one unit only have one alien at a time, and removing the pheropod kills the alien."

I had considered that, a "controlling" unit that must accompany the alien at all times.

Also had thought about instead of aliens dying when they fail a check, let them drop to 10% health and have to heal.

[Monaldinio]

Thanks for the writeup DewyB.

Suggestions about the Xenomorph Pheropod are very welcome, I'm not too happy with it either. The coolest would be if the aliens can permanently stay yours, but that's very unbalanced.

In my mod for civ 4 BtS i had a similar Problem, my Solution was...you can Hold only a spacifield amount of Alien lifeforms, depending on you Planet atetude (Environmental pollution,), Social structure and buildings...

[SephiRok]

I like that. Then Terra Salvum could have more of them. Would need a good way to display it though.

[DewyB]

I started another game with the same settings since so much had changed... I wanted to give the new mechanics a fair shot.

7 ruins explored, no Pherapod. Of course I haven't explored the whole map yet, but the Divine Ascension just took ruin number 8 as I was heading for it... unlikely I am going to find it this game and will have to restart to give the aliens a fair test.

That is why I dislike the Random discovery. My mindset from the beginning is to play a "green" faction embracing the new planet. Despite me directing my efforts to discovering a way to work with the native lifeforms... the people here to EXPLOIT the world have an equal chance or GREATER (some start with faster units) to have this ability... even if it was not a goal. If I DO NOT find it early in the game... I WILL NOT find it at all!

[SephiRok]

I understand, we'll probably make it a researchable technology instead of a ruin reward.

I don't think I would say converting aliens is very green, Terra Salvum is about peace and co-existance, not subjugating native lifeforms. That would more fit to Divine Ascension as it currently stands.

[DewyB]

New game, same settings, even took a ruin from the Divine Ascention this time... not only do I not find a pherapod, they did... and used it to take over the drone I found in a ruin.

I am researching snipers in the third level of the tech tree and just can't seem to figure out a motivator for the natives... but God has found a way. Not very green at all. Maybe Terra Salvum needs to START with the pherapod.

Meanwhile I give up trying to play Green... will proceed with someone more warlike to test the combat changes.

[DewyB]

I don't think I would say converting aliens is very green, Terra Salvum is about peace and co-existance, not subjugating native lifeforms. That would more fit to Divine Ascension as it currently stands.

That is an interesting take on it... when I think "Green" I would think ala the movie Pandora and it's war machines... using the existing lifeforms to do what they do to small meaty things. Less impact on the environment as they are FROM the environment... than say, a Steel tank requiring even the most pollution free techniques. When said war is over you can release them back into the ecosystem from which they came.

Forcing the Terra Salvum faction down a path of industrial production to survive seems TO ME, counter their mindset.

[SephiRok]

I suppose in a perfect game, Terra Salvum could ally with the natives and gain benefits from them, such as native units under their control.

At least I feel that making powerful units to forcefully control natives is not their memo either.

[DewyB]

Again, best solution I could come up with was for each life form controlled you would build a unit with a pherapod and pay upkeep on that unit. They "merge" and are always together until destroyed. This also compensated for the limited lifespan of aliens (dying after some period of captivity) and freeing up the unit for upgrade or another capture and control.

Irrelevant at the moment, 3 years into a game as the Noxium and still no Pherapod. Strange how random works... ignored the device most other times I had it. Now that I want to test it some more... can't get the thing.

[Sabratha]

Thanks for the writeup DewyB.

Suggestions about the Xenomorph Pheropod are very welcome, I'm not too happy with it either. The coolest would be if the aliens can permanently stay yours, but that's very unbalanced.

That's why I think it sould be a technology that appears much later in the tech tree, but allows you to fully integrate aliens. Just my opinion.

[DewyB]

It wouldn't do any good to appear late in the tech tree... Hives and Native lifeforms are dead 3-5 years into the game. No bringing them back after they are gone.

[Canute0]

Why not ? When 1 faction gain biotechnology instead the standard technology. They could disassamble/analyse the alien lifeform and adjust them for their own use to produce and improve them.

But with the current game design this can't happen because the tech tree need to be the same for all faction, because of the (damn) multiplayer option.

And maybe the planet can produce some hives from time to time. Ok maybe not we don't want copy all things from AC.

[DewyB]

Because the game mechanics currently do not allow for us to produce aliens... Hives produce them and we capture them. After 3 or 4 years all of the hives are gone and no more aliens to capture.

What you are suggesting might be accomplished by a "build a hive" type of field operation. An interesting possibility. Plop an angry hive down near one of your cities and capture the aliens or wipe them for the credits. Drop one near an enemy to keep them busy while you maneuver... could be exploitable though.