Handgunners

[irondog068]

As I finish painting the rest of my Swiss and My friend finishes his army I am left reading the rules.

My question is this: A shock unit (inf) has to take a test no to charge a unit within 2MU. Range of handgun 2MU. You are not allowed to fire into a melee or if charged. So How does a unit of light handgunners screen a pikeblock? To me it seems they cannot deliver any sort of covering fire from the front. Am I missing something?

Irondog

[davidandlynda]

The job of the skirmisher is to soften the enemy pike blocks before you charge them then get out of the way,it is possible shoot into a melee at the non engaged bases
David

[rbodleyscott]

As I finish painting the rest of my Swiss and My friend finishes his army I am left reading the rules.

My question is this: A shock unit (inf) has to take a test no to charge a unit within 2MU. Range of handgun 2MU. You are not allowed to fire into a melee or if charged. So How does a unit of light handgunners screen a pikeblock? To me it seems they cannot deliver any sort of covering fire from the front. Am I missing something?

Pikes don't have to test not to charge mounted troops. Pikes have more of an advantage against knights if the knights charge them than if they charge the knights. If you put handgunners in front of your pikes then enemy knights will have the stark choice of being shot to death (or shot at until they break) or charging the pikes at a disadvantage. As long as the handgunners aren't too far in front of your pikes they can evade safely through your pikes if charged.

Pikes and handgunners is in fact a very good combination against mounted enemies - less effective against enemy foot.

[babyshark]

1) The LF handgunners move to 2 MU form the Pk in their maneuver phase. In the shooting phase they shoot. During the Pk's turn, 2a) if the Pk do not charge them, the LF handgunners shoot again. 2b) If the Pk do charge, then the LF evade and cannot shoot during that turn. 3) Go to 1.

If the LF have enough room, and are not chased off by other LF supporting the Pk, they will eventually force enough CTs to drive the Pk down the morale ladder, or draw the Pk out of position (by causing the Pk to make repeated charges) so that their own strike troops can whack the Pk.

Of course, your mileage may vary. If the Pk catch the LF during one of those charge . . . .

Marc

[irondog068]

So,
If I have 2 8 stand pike blocks with a 6 stand handgunner group and a leader making a battleline and a gap for the hand gunners to retreat through.

And they are charged by a unit the hand gunners can,
1) give fire, and my pike can charge.
2) run like rabbits and let the pike eat who ever was sill enough to charge them.

I am sure this will be clear as mud as soon as I start using these rules.

Irondog

[irondog068]

Okay sorry for the double post.

If my Battle line is pike, hand gunners (back 1 base) pike if my pike block are charged since the hand gunners are not in contact they could fire at the units charging the pike if they overhang in front of the gunners. Hopefully causing a test making life even worse for the unit charging the pike.

Irondog

[sagji]

So,
If I have 2 8 stand pike blocks with a 6 stand handgunner group and a leader making a battleline and a gap for the hand gunners to retreat through.

And they are charged by a unit the hand gunners can,
1) give fire, and my pike can charge.
2) run like rabbits and let the pike eat who ever was sill enough to charge them.

I am sure this will be clear as mud as soon as I start using these rules.

Irondog

The light foot can attempt to stand to receive the charge (need to pass a CMT) If they do they will die horribly while the pike watch.

Alternatively they can evade (throught the pike) and there is a risk of what charged them hitting the pike piecemeal - unless they were close enough to charge the pike as well.

The light foot should be 2 deep, and this means that an enemy 2 MU from their front is more than 3 MUs from their rear.

There is the risk that some foot that want's to fight you pike will advance to 3 MUs from the pike - which in your turn have to pass a CMT to not charge through your lights, and there is a risk that only one pige will pass.

[irondog068]

So,

My battle line consists of a 8 stand pike, 6 stand halbder and a 8 stand pike screened by a 6 stand handgun unit with a TC.

If they are charged my handgun unit can fall back through my heavy troops without penelty leaving my heavy troops to stand or counter charge.

Right? I hope?
Irondog

[carlos]

Standing and counter-charging are the same thing and factored in the PoAs already, so if Impact Foot charges Impact Foot you can assume that the IF receiving the charge did in fact counter charge.

Otherwise you are correct. The LF handgunners can evade through other troops when charged which gives them at least one shot before contact.

[irondog068]

Oh,
So that could be scary. In my Battleline They could fire, evade and the enemy would then come to grips with my 2 pike block and 1 halberder unit. That could be bad for the enemy.

Irondog

[carlos]

Scary indeed! One of the best tricks LF can do is make HF blocks charge piecemeal into the LF's heavier friends. After your LF have screened the HF, you can move them to the side and use them to fire at parts of the enemy HF. Remember that you can fire at any stands that are not actually fighting. So if you are firing at the side of a pike block that is 4 deep, you can still shoot them because only the first 2 stands fight (the other just help on PoA). Does that make sense?

[shall]

Indeed. The purpose of the LF is to irritate the enemy and force them into action. As your swiss Pk are drilled and suprior they are very controllable. Place your LF in front of your pikes and march up close to the enemy. You will get 1 shot only with the hadngunners but at good factors.
If you force a test its at a -1 for being shot at by firearms so the odds of a DISR are quite high.

Then the enemy will have to charge you or stand and take more punishement. So basically the Handgunners will screen your pikes form enemy skirmish fire and have a single chance of DISRing the opposition.

Perfect result I got once with cretans archers in front of Spears was to walk up and DISR a BG of kn who then failed and had to charge into offensive spearmen. A POA down and 6 dice vs 8 they promptly got murdered.

All that siad don't rely on your HG to win games. FOG is desinged to be realistic in the role skimishers really played. They are not your main BGs - your Pikes are.

Si

[irondog068]

You can fire then evade? I could not fin that. I thought it was evade or fire. What I like about the rules so far as it seems I can run a Swiss army in the 3 lines of battle they fought with. Mind you the first and second are in contact (pike and skirmishers)

Irondog

[hammy]

In your turn your handgunners can advance up to 5MU and then fire upto 2MU, if your opponent charges then your handgunners evade and don't shoot. The following turn your handgunners turn round and move into range and fire etc.

At some point your handgunners will run out of space to get between the opposing heavy troops so at that point they have to make their way to a flank or stand around and wait for an opportunity.