Two Base BGs

[Tiger]

I have played the starter armies in Rise of Rome to playtest the rules.

I noted the 2 Base BG for Triarii, in one of the games the Triarii lost a base and therefore were removed from play in the appropriate sequence. This seems a bit harsh for an elite unit that starts with so low a number? Was this correct?

I also note that when building an army, BGs MUST be even in number, the issue being that Triarii are a multiple of the Hastati/Principes and to reach 4 bases for two BGs needs alot (32) of H/P bases which comes very costly.

Therefore one either risks a 2 base BG of Triarii per legion or unhistorical merging of Triarii from more than one legion is undertaken to form a reasonable size BG.

How are other players with this army building their armies?

P

[nikgaukroger]

I have played the starter armies in Rise of Rome to playtest the rules.

I noted the 2 Base BG for Triarii, in one of the games the Triarii lost a base and therefore were removed from play in the appropriate sequence. This seems a bit harsh for an elite unit that starts with so low a number? Was this correct?

It is correct - use with care

[sagji]

this is correct - however as you have only 2 bases you will be fighting on a 1 base frontage - so it is very hard to take the 3 hits required to loose a base from shooting or winning the close combat. As Superior/Elite armoured offensive spear you are unlikely to loose a close combat.

[Tiger]

Thanks for the speedy reply Nic

I would appreciate a definition of rear support, I am sure it is in the book but i have failed to find it yet, I have found most other quieries I have had.

I assume it is friends within a normal move to their rear? Also can LF provide rear support?

many thanks

ps: really enjoying the playtesting, bit of a hurdle to start with but it gets easier with practice.

[Tiger]

this is correct - however as you have only 2 bases you will be fighting on a 1 base frontage - so it is very hard to take the 3 hits required to loose a base from shooting or winning the close combat. As Superior/Elite armoured offensive spear you are unlikely to loose a close combat.

Unluck dice roll !!!

[rbodleyscott]

this is correct - however as you have only 2 bases you will be fighting on a 1 base frontage - so it is very hard to take the 3 hits required to loose a base from shooting or winning the close combat. As Superior/Elite armoured offensive spear you are unlikely to loose a close combat.

Unlucky dice roll !!!

Of course it can happen, but if 4,5,6 is a hit, and you are re-rolling 1s and 2s, and the enemy (often) need 5s to hit, it doesn't happen very often - unless you are overlapped.

When it happens you can assume that they fought to the last man, leaving a neat pile of bodies around the standard.

[rbodleyscott]

Thanks for the speedy reply Nic

I would appreciate a definition of rear support, I am sure it is in the book but i have failed to find it yet, I have found most other quieries I have had.

It is in the glossary. Can't tell you which page as I don't have my rules with me.

Also can LF provide rear support?

No

The thing to note is that one BG of 2 triarii can give rear support to two BGs of 4 hastati/principes each, if it is placed behind the join between the two.

The idea isn't to actually fight with the triarii, but to win with the hastati & principes.

[hammy]

this is correct - however as you have only 2 bases you will be fighting on a 1 base frontage - so it is very hard to take the 3 hits required to loose a base from shooting or winning the close combat. As Superior/Elite armoured offensive spear you are unlikely to loose a close combat.

Unluck dice roll !!!

Remember that for you to lose a base from a 2 base BG you have to either lose the combat (which is not that likely as pointed out by Richard) or take more than 2 hits as if you win or draw you get +2 on the death roll.

Realistically this means that your Triarii are fighting overlapped or have been VERY unlucky as they have to lose the combat then roll a 1 or 2.

[terrys]

I also note that when building an army, BGs MUST be even in number, the issue being that Triarii are a multiple of the Hastati/Principes and to reach 4 bases for two BGs needs alot (32) of H/P bases which comes very costly.

As stated in the list - a legion can be either 10 bases or 20 bases depending on your preferred figure scale. The first would give you a figure scale of 1:300, while the 2nd gives you a figure scale of 1:150

I prefer my Roman Legion to have 16 Hastati/Princioes and 4 Triarii.

[Tiger]

Thanks for the feedback guys

When you start a new game system it takes time to appreciate concepts and get the correct feel or perception of the rules. Indeed if you have no source of effective feedback things will not improve. Just be patient with us newbies.

I have to say when I played the starter armies for RofR I initially thought the Romans were very small and vunerable, but they have yet to lose!! (ok only two games so far) but neverthe less the initial perception was it was an imbalanced game, perhaps it was but in completely the opposite respect.

I can see the advantage of 2base BG for Triarii following your comments, it really does aid understanding and confirms that what you read is indeed correct.

It could well be that I made a mistake when the Triarii lost a base, I believe I did a death roll and rolled a one followed by a reroll of - one!! which is what I mean't by unlucky die rolls - it happens.

IMHO we have been in a slump since the DB series lost its way and reassuringly I feel that FofG is a intelligent, informed and well thought out option, good stuff. I really look forward to learning its sublties over the next decade.

Finally has anyone played the two starter armies for RofR and what was the average result/outcome. How does Carthage beat the Romans, I assumed not frontally?

cheers

P

[sagji]

You don't get to reroll death rolls.

[edward]

Phil,

(Tiger - I assume it's you Phil...)

Tony and I have played a Repo Romans vs Cartaginians game, not using the starter armies, but not so different, and I found the same (being the Punic player). The Repo's are very hard frontally, especially the armoured ones. In our case the Punics lost having gone down 12 attrition points (army break) against the Repo's 8. I was winning with my Gauls and my rock hard Gallic cavalry on the flank, but got crushed in the centre. Specifically, my two units of Lybian skirmishers were done in by his Velites. Losing these two units cost me 4 attrition points...

We have our second game scheduled for tomorrow, same armies, and I am planning on NOT making the same mistakes again!

Cheers,

Ed

[rtaylor]

The thing to note is that one BG of 2 triarii can give rear support to two BGs of 4 hastati/principes each, if it is placed behind the join between the two.

Are you talking about this?

Code: Select all

1111222233334444
1111222233334444


      TTTT
      TTTT

Where 1 & 2 are the files of one hastati + principes BG, 3 & 4 are the files of another, and T is the triarii.

[hammy]

The thing to note is that one BG of 2 triarii can give rear support to two BGs of 4 hastati/principes each, if it is placed behind the join between the two.

Are you talking about this?

Code: Select all

1111222233334444
1111222233334444


      TTTT
      TTTT

Where 1 & 2 are the files of one hastati + principes BG, 3 & 4 are the files of another, and T is the triarii.

Yes,

Each BG of hastati and principes has 2 bases of triarii at least partly behind them.

[Tiger]

Tony and I have played a Repo Romans vs Cartaginians game, not using the starter armies, but not so different, and I found the same (being the Punic player). The Repo's are very hard frontally, especially the armoured ones.

Hi Ed, I'm Paul not Phil, happy to make your acquaintance

Thanks for the feedback, in the two games I played I had all the Punic mtd on one flank and tried to take out the roman flank guard out - using the Punic foot to move slowly forward to attract the main roman infantry line.

I have yet to appeciate how long it takes to beat a smaller flank and then move through to flank the enemies flank or rear, indeed the enemy are not helpful and tend to do their own thing !!!

The other issue I got caught with is having impact troops in the front line with differing move distances, for instance the Spanish Scutarii move 4" to the rest of the lines 3" [being HF] whilst the roman line is a constant with a 3" move. The romans moved to 3.5" of the Punic foot line which forced the punic player to test to avoid impact foot charging for the only unit in charge range, a fail resulted in a peicemeal charge. Guess what we had - yup a peicemeal charge, as the rest of the line was beyond charge range and one serverly disadvantaged unit and ultimately disadvantaged Punic battleline. lesson - maintain a constaint frontline, possibly use medium foot as support? [Views?]

Now of course it could be I have misread the rules if so please advise.

[edward]

How amusing! I know someone else, a wargamer, based a bit further north, whose name begins with P and who also uses Tiger as his nickname on the web!

We also had issues with the different moves, in our case using battle lines and having mixed movement distances which ended up causing CMT's for the whole battle line as some troops were not moving their full distance (i.e. a simple advance)...

I suppose it will take us a few games to get the hang of all the subtleties!

[Tiger]

We also had issues with the different moves, in our case using battle lines and having mixed movement distances which ended up causing CMT's for the whole battle line as some troops were not moving their full distance (i.e. a simple advance)...

Wow

I missed that one - Difficult Forward Moves - interesting this will certainly eliminate much gamesmanship. It has a real feel and applies to all types - but not applicable if a commander is with the BG/BL. I reckon I was ok as I had a Troop Commander attached to a unit in the battle line, but yet another sublety to be appreciated.

Your right Ed, it'll take some time.

P[/quote]

[BrianC]

I had the same question regarding Triarii. But the more I understood what Superior and elite was the more I can see them packing a punch. I like that they are in the back lines as they were historically lending support. I assume if they get into the fight that things are getting sticky for the Romans, is that a safe assumption? Doing my first playtest tonight with a friend so appreciate these threads greatly.

Brian

[stevoid]

We also had issues with the different moves, in our case using battle lines and having mixed movement distances which ended up causing CMT's for the whole battle line as some troops were not moving their full distance (i.e. a simple advance)...

If you were a BL with a commander then short moves would not cause a CMT nor would they if more than 6MU from enemy.

Steve

[shall]

These little elite units provide extremely good rear supoort for superiors and this is there main role.

Also Elites are very very hard to beat if they are not isolated - so its not easy to lose a base from a 2 base elite BG. You need to gang up ont hem somehow.

So keep them as rear support in that roman army. Or if elite kataphraktoi in the Byzantine army make sure they have Superiors either side and you will find they very rarely lose a base. If they do tough luck - thus is the risk for tking such small powerhouse BGs.

We wouldn't want it obvious that they were worth taking or everyone would want some!!

Si