AXIS units too strong

[Ashcloud]

Why do the Axis forces seem so much stronger than the Allies? I am currently playing 2 multiplayer scenarios (one in Normandy and the other in the Bulge) and the Panthers (which seem indestructible) and other German tanks chew up my Allied tanks with ease. This game seems very unbalanced with regards to the strength of the German units.

[DocMogs]

its a common complaint when you start playing the game. Historically, axis had the better tanks and BA tries to emulate that imbalance in the game.

Panthers, tigers and king tigers seem to own the battle field and if you take them head on with your allied tanks they will dominate.

But the game isn't just about tanks. Infantry and artillery are as powerful as any tank and infantry have the advantage of being able to stay hidden from tanks while in striking position.

The allies tend to have better artillery and better infantry not to mention that allied tanks are cheaper and so you get more of everything. Look to win the infantry battles leaving the large German tanks isolated and blind to allied ambushes. Try goading the axis armor into advancing too far forward and look to take flanking shots on the weaker side armor of most axis tanks (with the exception of the king tiger axis tanks are all heavy forward armor but light side armor; panthers have 140 frontal, 60 side and 40 rear armor).
You will get more allied tanks also so try and get the axis tanks to fire on a fast allied target, draw out their sole remaining reaction shot and then pummel them into suppression with high volume of shots.

some key things to remember;

-units with moral below 0 will surrender to attacking adjacent infantry and tanks (regardless of the %age chance to hit/destroy. However you will need explosive charges to attack a tank to get them to surrender). There are exceptions to this like infantry in heavy bunkers don't surrender until -100 moral, infantry in buildings attacked by tanks/halftracks outside have a lower chance of surrendering but any tank at less than 0 moral that is attacked adjacent will surrender.
-there are only a certain amount of reaction shots before a unit becomes a sitting duck.
-mortars and other bombards will lower tank morale
-rear armor is always weaker, learn to take advantage of it
-Jumbos and churchills are the best tanks you can use to draw axis reaction fire and hope to survive.
-Halftracks/bren carriers are often fast enough to avoid the 1st reaction shot or two if you don't have an expendable tanks to draw the reaction shots out.
-Try and keep a crew of engineers/flamethrowers/paras/bazookas/piats loaded up on halftracks (and behind your front tank line or out of sight) so you can ride up to the enemy tanks, unload your troops and assault the sitting duck tanks for surrenders and KO's. If you can come from behind you might not even need to draw out enemy fire.
- learn to rely on and use your 17pdrs and 6 pdrs wisely. try to engage the tanks from one direction and clear some buildings or other cover that will give you flank shots with your arty while the armor is occupied
- if the armor is advancing and you can't get around the side then keep your 17pdrs hidden (hold fire) until they are only 2-3 squares away and will actually have a chance of penetrating the massive frontal armor.
-KTs are best dealt with by making them surrender. Armor is too heavy for all but the biggest allied guns at close range (and then never front on) but they are prone to break downs and lose moral like any other tank. Mortar them, pound on them and then make them quit.

[doublesixjunkie]

Sorry agree with first post. Axis armour is rated correctly its the point cost is too cheap, so that the allies do not have enough of their tanks to use the tactics the allies actually used which is to swarm the German tanks. If a panther hits it kills, which is correct but the allies should be able to purchase far more tanks than the Germans. They cannot. A Sherman is 99 points a panther 240. 2 for 1 is not enough.

I play enough board tactical wargames to see unbalance, and this ruins the game for me. I have noticed a trend that most players want to play the Germans. This is why.

[protectivedaddy]

The custom maps that allow engineers to drop tank traps combat the strength of the axis armour, creating bottlenecks for foot soldier side attacks. And as described due to cost of allied units you simply sacrifice a unit or two to enable you forces to flank heavy axis armour and either suppressed to surrender of enough rear shot to take them out.

Unfortunately historically the battlefield was unbalanced and the best part of BA is that it mimics this, you simply have to evolve your strategies to be victorious as the allies, play enough matches and you'll discover how......always worth starting MP matches against yourself to try out different approaches if you keep losing your battles.

All in all stick with it, don't get disheartened just because the enemy is bigger than you, every player who starts playing BA feels the same but once you start experimenting with your strategy you'll soon discover the allies as just as strong.

[doublesixjunkie]

Sorry to disagree. Just looked at the woods multiplayer scenario from Rommel pack. From both points of view for purchasing. King tiger = 270 points, Panther = 240 points, Jagdpather = 143 points. Sherman 99 points. There is a maximum of two Priests and two mortars. No air, no Off Board Artillery. Infantry seems the same. Now the Jagdpanther seems to spin around firing and hitting with no issue what so ever, so why were turrets invented? So for 44 points or less than half a Sherman, the Germans can purchase the Jagdpanther, now that's an even match. If the German infantry is a match for the allied how can't he allies " ambush" the super tanks. Please designscenarios that make it interesting for the allies.

I play ASL and if the Germans have a panther the the allies have the means to take it out. In this it seems the there is a tendency to glorify the panzer shame...

[protectivedaddy]

I've played the woods twice as the allies and won both............taking minimal losses each time, on each occasion I did keep out of the way of the tiger but due to it being temperamental and limited movement spaces anyway and the layout of woods it was easy.

[Loonarstatic]

Ok, thanks for helping

[pipfromslitherine]

We are planning to implement new UI and logic for turret-less armour in BA2, as we do agree that their downsides are sometimes not modeled as well as they could be.

Cheers

Pip