cashing in CPs for extra dice

[BrettPT]

I think this may have been posted on previously, however in our 1813 campaign (just finished - 10 starting players, 6 major battles) we used a rule modification that you can add dice to a CMT attempt by utilising extra CPs.

In the campaign, each additional CP used (above and beyond any required to take the test in the first place) provided an extra dice.
The inital reason behind the rule was to allow the French to better benefit from their generally higher quality commanders.

The effects that I noticed were also:

1) Helped to speed games up (by making double moves; artillery prolongs; being able to move after taking a hit; charging while disordered; and charging home more likely)
2) Made allocation of the Corp Commander's CPs a more important decision (as you will actually use them)
3) Enhanced decision making during turns (...do I throw my extra CP into this test? or that one? Should I save my CP for later, or is it more important to make sure I pass this test now?)
4) Provided a tangle benefit to an army with a greater overall supply of CPs.
5) Soaked up virtually all CPs every turn.

A negative was having to count up how many CPs you were using and converting this to numbers of dice (French under Napoleon sometimes added 3 extra dice to crucial CMTs!).

In the wrap-up discussions, the player's were unanimous that this rule was a good one (even Philip who initially didn't like it!) - although we agreed that an improvement would be to limit the number of additional dice a unit could receive to 1 (this would mitigate the counting up CPs aspect)

I have been asked to put together a player's pack for Battlecry 2014 (a local tournament being held early next year) and I think I'll include the following rule amendment:

When taking a CMT, a single additional command point may be allocated to the unit taking the test (above the normal command point(s) required) to gain an additional die when taking the test.
If a commander is using his ‘free’ command point, then adding a command point gains an additional die for the test (and a 4+ on any die will be needed to succeed as a Co0mmander is attached).

I'ld be interested to hear any views on this.

Cheers
Brett

[deadtorius]

Sounds like an interesting idea. Probably keeping it to one extra die would help keep the confusion down. Perhaps we should give it a try.

[hazelbark]

I see little that can be hurt by it.

[Philip]

I'm still a little cautious about this. A limit of adding one extra CP per test may be a useful thing for commanders to do, without unbalancing things too much. You still want the chance for things to go wrong sometimes!

As the game progresses, units will be lost but the number of commanders stays the same (usually!). You'll then get the situation of a small number of units getting a larger number of dice for tests, when really we want to have a deterioration in the army instead of a concentration of command and control.

Philip

[hazelbark]

Well I was worried about the same. Then reminded myself it is CMT not CT.

So it can't be used say when responding to an enmey assault, that would be huge.

It is mostly going to be responding to fire, formation changes in tight spots and double moves. What else... stream crossings, buildings.

You could restrict it to steady troops if you like, or make it only in movement thus banning its use in the assault phase. Or make the general have to leading the unit to use it, in the assualt phase.

[KendallB]

In the final battle of our 1813 campaign I only ever found it important to expend extra CPs once, even though I was doing it practically every move.

Mainly I was expending one extra CP in my movement phase to get a better chance of moving a unit backwards with the DC (and CC in some cases) attached.

The only exception was when performing a combined arms attack. The DC got an extra two CPs and was attached to the infantry. I added two CPs for two extra dice (making 4) to pass the CMT to charge and then used the final CP to make the CMT to get into contact after getting a hit in the defensive fire. Adding the two dice actually allowed the unit to charge as I only rolled a single 5 and the rest 3 or under! Breaking that unit was quite important as there was a nice hole that I was starting to exploit.

Personally, while it was an interesting thing, I don't want the rules to be mucked around with too much. Agree with the only adding 1 CP sentiment, however.

[JJMicromegas]

Hello, new player here, one thing I don't understand, in the rules you can use a CP to re-do a CMT that is failed. In this case it doesn't make sense to use the CP to add a dice other than in situations where you only get once chance (ie: to charge home after receiving a "CMT to advance result from defensive fire" and changing formation when being charged.

[Blathergut]

I don't think you get a redo. Where in the rules do you think it says this? Once a CMT is failed, the unit may not do another one that movement phase.

[JJMicromegas]

You're right, I read that rule incorrectly, you can do multiple CMT's as long as you don't fail any. Thx for the correction.

[terrys]

I certainly like the idea of getting more use of CPs. It increases the value of better quality generals.
It's certainly something we'll be looking at for the next version.
In the meantime, its certainly reasonable that local competitions and particularly campagins expand on the rules to suit your own tastes.

[Russ1664]

This does sound a very good idea, but would it undermine the value veteran troops perhaps when compared to drilled and especially conscripts? For example under the suggested changes conscripts would be able to manoeuvre like drilled but are much cheaper. Perhaps one possibility is to allow the army to have defined pool of these extra CPs at the start of the battle based on the quality of the generals. ( dice placed in a separate container) The player being allowed to use points as suggested, each time reducing the pool by 1 dice. An approach such as this using a pool which can be exhausted would also address issue mentioned earlier of armies becoming more nimble as the ration of the units to generals change.

[KendallB]

Having done this in our campaign with veteran and conscript infantry I can say that it doesn't devalue veterans whatsoever. It helps conscripts but the DC has to put so many CPs into the unit to get a successful result that it actually reduces the total number of tests possible for the division. With a veteran unit adding one extra CP is virtually guaranteeing the unit passes its CMT and leaves additional CPs for the rest of the division.

[hazelbark]

Vets still shoot better.
Vets still pass CTs much better.

And the idea that people may try to use Cosncripts more is a good thing from a history POV. A lot of migration toward quality at the moment.