More German campaigns

[chris234j]

After playing some of Rommel in Normandy I truly cant wait for the eastern front. My platform is the Ipad and wish we got some more slitherine games they do a great job.

[protectivedaddy]

The new Rommel maps are giving gottalove serious run for his money as my favourite mp maps, they are truly fantastic.

The creation department have outdone themselves and if this is a taster of eastern front, put my pre-order in now.

Well done pip and team.

[LandMarine47]

Hehe yes can't wait for BA2! I suspect this time at least one German Campaign will be in the Main Campaign. Followed by the Skirmish and Co-op Maps. Hopefully the modders make a good German Campaign themselves. Have you guys tried Crete? The best German one in my option which is notorious for its difficulty. It makes Sicily and the Bulge look like Water Ballon fights when compared with the difficulty level.

[Old_Warrior]

The new Rommel maps are giving gottalove serious run for his money as my favourite mp maps, they are truly fantastic.

The creation department have outdone themselves and if this is a taster of eastern front, put my pre-order in now.

Well done pip and team.

And Richard Evans "touches up" the maps prior to them being finished too. Kudos to Richard!

[leci]

It would be great to see 'what if' scenarios eg Felix ie Axis invasion of Gibraltar and Herkules ie the Axis invasion of Malta.

Gilles

[LandMarine47]

It would be great to see 'what if' scenarios eg Felix ie Axis invasion of Gibraltar and Herkules ie the Axis invasion of Malta.

Gilles

Yes it would be cool especially Malta. German Paras everywhere followed by Italian Landings I want to see some Italian Scenarios like Salerno, Anzio, and Monte Cassino through the eyes of both sides

[leci]

Interestingly both ops were possible at a point in time. Gibraltar was possible via Franco during and after the Spanish Civil War, but Ribbontrop et al, failed to 'seduce' Franco partly because Ribbontrop was an idiot that, quite rightly, called into question the sustainability of Nazi Germany and Hitler.

Malta had been been possible via the Italians in the late 30's but Mussolini pursued his Ethopian, East Africa adventure and then worse his North Africa adventure which was doomed given support distances (without taking Malta first) and for which he required German assistance - which in turn diluted German resources elsewhere.

All this compounded by 1) Crete - a wasted battle with limited strategic value (sponsored by Student) which coloured German views of Para warfare even though German paras had proved their worth in France and a weapon of war in which Germany was far ahead of their enemies. Plus this Greek adventure was forced upon the Gemans by Mussolini's stupid adventures in the Balkans. And 2) Ribbontrop failures re Turkey (who had enjoyed positive German support during WW1 etc) and offered a route into India and oil resources.

Gilles

[LandMarine47]

Yes the only reason Htiler wanted an Alliance with Franco was for quick access to a Weaker French North Africa and to close Gibraltar and isolate the British thus putting the entire North African Theatre in grave danger. And Franco's subordinates (who hated Hitler) convinced Franco to ask for ridiculous terms. Spain would join the war upon a (successful) SeaLion.

Mussolini was doomed due to his overall stupidity. Instead of improving their Armed forces with German Equipment. He not only ignored that he went an adventure to destroy the weaker Ethiopia, instead of making plans to smash the British first. I can see an "Italian Pearl Harbor" where German planes and the Italian Navy devastate the Britsh Mediterranean Fleet. Thus Malta (And most of Coastal North Africa) would be in horrible danger. Instead Mussolini gave up precious time and allowed the British time to Mobilize. Had the Italians and Germans entered the war together there COULD be a chance of an Italian-Britsh Standoff Navaly near Malta and/or Alexandria. Now there is a slight chance of a French attack through the Alps, but the French defensive doctrine would not have allowed it.

Given time Turkey could have aided the Axis but it would require lots of diplomacy and time. By then Barbarossa would be in effect and the Russians would Steam Roll the Turks unless the Germans rush in in time.

Crete was pointless but at the same time was important as the British could hit Oil Fields in Romania and the Caucasus.
Italy's Armed Forces weren't up to the job of invading Greece (which had strong British support) but with the coup in Yugoslavia, Hitler would attack one way or another and Italy would pressure the Germans into doing it as well.
Crete gained the safety of German oil interests but lost something greater. The German Paratroopers were just simply Infantry and had they been used in Russia I'm sure Moscow, Leningrad, and Stalingrad would have all fallen and the German could begin planning a REAL Sealion

Well that's my input on the situation but its more of my random "what if" scenarios.

[leci]

Spot on!

[bjarmson]

Paratroops during WWII got a lot of good press (particularly the US Normandy drops), but in actuality they were not very successful. The elite troops could probably been put to better use as regular infantry, which is how most were used late in the war. As paratroops they had virtually no heavy weapons, very limited supplies, were inevitably cut off, and the airdrops were so highly inaccurate most troops were scattered over huge distances and had little unit cohesion. If not promptly linked with and relieved by regular Army units they were usually decimated, as was the British 1st Airborne Division at Arnhem during Operation Market Garden. In Sicily, friendly fire probably killed more Allied airborne troops than the Axis. Crete was a victory for the Germans mostly due to immense British incompetence rather than elite troops. To say a relatively small number of airborne troops would have changed the situation in Russia is total nonsense. If almost 4 million highly trained German troops, equipped with some of the best equipment available, couldn't manage, how could at most 10 thousand lightly armed airborne troops (which is all that could be dropped at a time, given Luftwaffe plane limitations) possibly have made a difference? The US 101st Airborne Division's heroic stand at Bastogne was made after they had been trucked in, not airdropped.

Paratroops may be sexy, but their limitations vs regular troops are immense, thus their utility is limited at best.

[LandMarine47]

Yes but the enemy will have to divert lots a resources and Paratroopers often put up some very hard fights. Look at Arhnem the paras should have never held that long but they held as much as they could and thus saved the rest of the Allied Airborne divisions from complete annihilation. What if the Fallshcirmajers had landed at Stalingrad or Kiev? The conscripts would have never held that long and the Germans would have easily resupplied the paras. But yes they were lightly armored and the Conscripts could have won through sheer numbers. So yes they could have had a major impact because the Soviets would have used next to all their resources smashing the paras. Their Sacrifice would have paved the road to Moscow even faster. What of Moscow? The paras could have landed behind the massive Soviet defense line and breached a section of the fortifications. Thus another area the German army could pour into. Basically I disagree with you on the point as these elite paratroopers can do anything as long its not too ambitious like Market Garden. But these are the Russians so we don't know what could happen...

[leci]

From a 'what if' perspective Gibraltar and Malta are more realistic in that they were possible and possibly 'war winning' moves in that they would have made the Mediterranean an Axis pond, opened the way into the oil rich Middle East and with diplomacy, gained Turkish support which in turn would have put pressure on India in support of the Japanese (India, part of the British Empire which was already reacting against British rule). All of these things would have closed off Allied supply routes, created Allied unit isolation, eroded British influence and forced the Allies to fight on many remote fronts (inc. nationalistic forces) with diminishing returns.

The Russian campaign was doomed for a number of reasons inc. Corporal Hitler thinking he was a General, General Winter, the pre 1940 defeats/stalemates of Japanese forces in Manchuria, the German liquidation of Russian peoples who hated the Soviets and so on.

Gilles