NatCon 2013

[KendallB]

Guard corps tend to suffer from too few bums on seats and are usually outnumbered 2:1. Even low class armies can gang up on them to nail the 3 units needed for a 40-20 victory. Lots of Average Veteran Guard may be different. Cavalry corps lose so many ACV points through units being spent. Big 25-0 to 23-2 wins are next to impossible due to the small total of hits needed by the opposition to accrue ACV losses on you.

This is from experience with running a cavalry corps and watching guard corps in action.

[richafricanus]

Good points. We've found the cav and Guard seem to get in so quickly and inflict rapid hits on one spot before the help can get there,but then you guys under the long cloud have played far more competitive games than we have, I'm sure.

What scoring system do you use in tournaments to determine 25-0 etc results?

[BrettPT]

I've taken French Guard to 2 tournaments. The first attempt was a straight, 8 unit, rolls royce Old Guard Corps. The 2nd attempt was a 1814 list consisting of Guard plus the minimum numbers of average line, artillery, LC and poor conscript filler.

The Rolls Royce version relied for success on being the attacker, moving fast and hitting a portion of the enemy line and beating it 30:10 - as you say Rich. Ideally for this tactic your opponent deploys wide.

However, I found:

1. If you end up defending with this army, it is in trouble - the opponent can swarm you. You could turtle up in defnce and play for the draw I guess.

2. When attacking good opponents with this army, they tended to deploy way back - perhaps with a LI skirmisher screen to slow your approach- wait for you to come and move their flanking forces so that when you hit, they have lots of muskets (and perhaps artillery) pointed at your attack formation, plus perhaps units lined up to your flank. Good opponents will keep their cavalry no-where near your Guard cavalry and so deny you easy kills here.

The only attacking option for my Guard faced with this strategy was to peel off units to protect the flanks, which tended to result in the attack formation being too small to win the game.

I've yet to work out effective tactics on how to play a rolls royce French Guard Corps against a good opponent (other than to sit back, use terrain and turtle up in defence) and have had dissappointing results. Newbies may be easily beaten, it's a tough run against experianced opponent's who have faced the Guard before however.

The 1814 Guard list is a much tougher proposition for opponents. It is not usually outnumbered and can use cheap troops to buy time and stop the enemy swarming the Guard units. 3 small units of poor conscripts (with an once of luck) can hold off an enemy flanking cavalry division (deploy 1 unit in close rear support and form square with the front 2 before being charged - the rear unit stops the enemy cavalry passing through).

In my view the 1814 list is the best option for fielding French Guard. You don't have all those annoying 'different types of guard must be used in different divisions' rules, you can have cheap supports, and crucially, you are not obliged to waste points on overpriced guard artillery. I've had pretty good success with this army.

- I should add that I lose more than I win with most armies I field - so take my observations with a grain of salt!

Cheers
Brett

[BrettPT]

I would second Kendal's observations on Cavalry Corps as well.

They (when supported by a few infantry and artillery) are powerful forces and a bit of a nightmare for opponent's to try and defeat.

However .... good opponent's will not take you on in a cavalry scrap (unless they can get a local advantage somewhere). They will instead max out on terrain, try to channel your forces, and concentrate their light infantry and artillery to snipe away at your units.

Most importantly as Kendal says, you can expect to lose 1/2 an ACV point for each of your units that charge. This can make getting a 30:10 win a tough ask, and you tend end up in tournament play with more than your fair share of draws.

- by the way, Kendal is a very good player and has more experiance running cavalry based armies than any of us in our group.

Cheers
Brett

[richafricanus]

Hi Brett, thanks for the very comprehensive reply. For now I'm sticking with my cavalry corps as I enjoy the pace it brings to the game and the fact that I've had 2 wins out of 2 I'm sure people will work it out soon enough. Tonight it's John Shaw's turn to try and beat them.

[KendallB]

I've had most success with cavalry corps having 2 horse artillery batteries. I aim for the bend in the opponent's line and start blasting away. As soon as you start inflicting cohesion losses then in go the cuirassiers. If you don't rout the target then you hopefully pass through and cause havoc in the rear areas.

Unfortunately everyone has got a bit wise to dealing with cavalry - lots of small terrain pieces to clutter up the battlefield is a big one. More people now stand to fire at the charge with good quality line infantry instead of going into square. They usually pass the CT and fire around 6 dice. The result is that the charge is stopped, however I have still got the cavalry in at times but with a cohesion loss which makes breaking the infantry a lot harder.

Saying that, I have 3 bases of French Dragoons that really needs to be expanded into a Cavalry Corps...

[richafricanus]

Well I'm up to 3 wins out of 3 The large superior veteran cuirassier with officer and artillery attachment is proving to be a bit of a game winner. Rolled 11 dice in a combat last game! I call them "the square breakers". Anyway I'm sure someone will work them out soon enough.

[terrys]

Well I'm up to 3 wins out of 3 The large superior veteran cuirassier with officer and artillery attachment is proving to be a bit of a game winner. Rolled 11 dice in a combat last game! I call them "the square breakers". Anyway I'm sure someone will work them out soon enough.

At 128pts for the unit I'd expect them to be good....For the points (and ignoring other factors), 3 units of Dragoons would beat them.
Dragoons 18 dice
Cuirassiers 9 dice (split across 3 units).

[KendallB]

But the Dragoons will all be spent. That's giving up 1.5ACV in order to get 3ACV for the enemy. Also your Dragoon division is now pretty impotent requiring CMTs to charge. There is still a chance that the SV cuirassiers will rally from rout (French Cavalry Corps always have a Charismatic commander) and a couple of turns later be back in the fight meaning you have wasted 1.5CV of your army for 1CV loss to the enemy. As they can freely charge when spent they can still pose a threat to the Dragoon's army.

I'm going with the cuirassiers!

[terrys]

But the Dragoons will all be spent. That's giving up 1.5ACV in order to get 3ACV for the enemy. Also your Dragoon division is now pretty impotent requiring CMTs to charge. There is still a chance that the SV cuirassiers will rally from rout (French Cavalry Corps always have a Charismatic commander) and a couple of turns later be back in the fight meaning you have wasted 1.5CV of your army for 1CV loss to the enemy. As they can freely charge when spent they can still pose a threat to the Dragoon's army.

At least they will have lost their artillery and officer attachments.
Of course it's all theory.....How often does anyone get the opportunity to attack 1 enemy unit with three of their own?
I'm working on ways to counter cuirassiers - I'll tell you if I'm successful after this weekend.

[BrettPT]

I'm working on ways to counter cuirassiers - I'll tell you if I'm successful after this weekend.

- the best way to counter enemy cuirassiers is to field more cuirassiers than your enemy

[KendallB]

I'm working on ways to counter cuirassiers.

Make them take a CMT if they wish to charge while disordered or spent. That will help.