Can Non-shock MF with light spear charge without CMT ?

[petedalby]

The sentence on page 64 says "Non-shock medium foot whose front rank has bow, longbow, ... must pass a CMT to charge

Exactly. And Dave's post was to assume that there was now a base with a XB in the front rank. Surely this meets the criteria you correctly quote?

[bbotus]

Are we saying the same thing? Impact medium foot (shock) with a crossbow base mixed in the front rank does not have to pass a CMT to charge. It only passes a CMT not to charge.

[petedalby]

Are we saying the same thing? Impact medium foot (shock) with a crossbow base mixed in the front rank does not have to pass a CMT to charge. It only passes a CMT not to charge.

No - I believe they have the worst of both worlds. See my earlier post.

[philqw78]

If it doesn't declare a charge it will have to pass a test so as not to charge.
If it does declare a charge it will have to pass a test to do so.

[petedalby]

If it doesn't declare a charge it will have to pass a test so as not to charge.
If it does declare a charge it will have to pass a test to do so.

Thanks Phil

[bbotus]

I see. Since you have medium foot shock bases and MF bow bases in the front rank, you ignore the shock bases when charging and test for the MF bow. So what would you do if you had heavy foot shock and medium foot bow mixed in the front rank? Would you still require them to test to charge?

[petedalby]

Is there a BG that meets that criteria?

[philqw78]

If you have Bow (etc) in the front rank you must test to charge (in some circumstances)

If you have shock troops in the front rank you must test not to charge (in some circumstances).

The rules do not say front rank completely made up of

Some wierd Persian troops can be elite HF offensive spear and MF bow. They are pooh. If you put the bow in the front rank as well as the HF they'd be elite confused troops

I assume the same could happen with dailami if a LF got into the front rank, and Russ spearmen

[grahambriggs]

You don't get foot bases who have a full effect missile weapon and are shock. It's a list writing no-no, to stop armies of supermen. Janissaries are good enough now as sup prot MF, Bow, Sw. Imaging how much better they'd be if they had the option to also be Impact Foot, which only costs a point!

But of course there are some BGs that mix shock bases and, say, bow bases. If one of the latter are put into the front rank, the rules still work. Assuming they are just facing foot in the open, then:

- owner declares whether they will attempt to charge.
- if they attempt a charge they will need to pass a CMT to do so
- if they fail the above CMT they are "shock troops who have not declared a charge" so have to take another CMT to see if they will charge without orders.

[ravenflight]

Just out of interest, are there any SHOCK troops whose front rank has bow, longbow, crossbow or firearm.

Highlanders, for example are Shock (Impact Foot) but have Bow*, not Bow.

Anyone know of anyone who are Shock AND Bow/Longbow/Crossbow/Firearm?

Perhaps it was just put in there for completeness.

Heavy Chariots with Bow, like Classical Indian and Early Carthaginian ?

Sorry, should have specified MF as that was what we were talking about.

[philqw78]

- owner declares whether they will attempt to charge.
- if they attempt a charge they will need to pass a CMT to do so
- if they fail the above CMT they are "shock troops who have not declared a charge" so have to take another CMT to see if they will charge without orders.

Surely there is only one test.

If they declare a charge they must pass the test to complete the charge.
If they do not they must pass a test so as not to charge.

[kevinj]

Surely there is only one test.

If they declare a charge they must pass the test to complete the charge.
If they do not they must pass a test so as not to charge.

I think this is the only sensible approach to what is thankfully a very rare situation. Even if they fail the first test they have still declared a charge, it just hasn't happened.

[bbotus]

Ask the question: Are there any shock troops in the BG? If yes, then the BG is a shock BG and you test by BG not by base. So they test as shock troops not non-shock MF with 'ranged weapon'.

Page 64, 1st diamond, top of page: 'Mixed BGs including any shock troops must test as if entirely shock troops.' I just found the reference while composing this reply.

[grahambriggs]

Well, very few shock troops actually have MF bow in the unit so I suspect it's never come up. I was just quoting what the rules say...

[Lycanthropic]

Interesting. So a mixed BG of Huscarls (4HF OffSpear + 2LF Bw) that has expanded out to 3 ranks wide can't charge battletroops in the open and does not have to test to charge battletroops?

[gozerius]

See bbotus' reply above.