Can Non-shock MF with light spear charge without CMT ?

[LEmpereur]

Page 64, it is write : "Non-shock Medium Foot whose front rank has bow, longbow, crossbow or firearm must pass a CMT to charge or intercept unbroken non skirmishers (unless charging their flank or rear)."

As it is not clear "only" We understand that Non-shock Medium Foot withbow and light spear should also pass a CMT to charge or intercept unbroken non skirmishers (unlesss...). Is that right?
Thanks for help!

[kevinj]

Yes that's correct.

[LEmpereur]

Yes that's correct.

Thanks for answer!

[philqw78]

But that does not include Bow*

[bbotus]

Are there any army lists where MF have B*?

[kevinj]

Tupi.

[kevinj]

And Later Heian Muromachi Japanese.

[petedalby]

Highlanders in several lists.

[petedalby]

And of course loads of different armies in Blood & Gold

[philqw78]

No HF have Bw*

[ravenflight]

Just out of interest, are there any SHOCK troops whose front rank has bow, longbow, crossbow or firearm.

Highlanders, for example are Shock (Impact Foot) but have Bow*, not Bow.

Anyone know of anyone who are Shock AND Bow/Longbow/Crossbow/Firearm?

Perhaps it was just put in there for completeness.

[petedalby]

I don't believe there are - no.

[kevinj]

I don't think there are any. The general principle of troop classification has always been that it reflects the main usage of them. So shock or other principally close combat troops who shoot a bit (e.g. Byzantines or Highlanders) are Bow*. If their main emphasis was shooting but they had something of a reputation in combat they will be Bow (or Longbow etc) and have either an Impact capbility (e.g. EA Persians) or a melee one (e.g. Ghilmen, Janissaries). Some where there is no consensus get a choice (e.g. Lithuanians who can be Bw, Sw or Bw*, LS, Sw). Nobody gets a full strength missile capability (like Bow etc) together with both an Impact and a Melee weapon capability.

[philqw78]

LH do, a number have bow, sword and lt spear, or jav, lt sp, sword

But they're not shock

[Three]

Just out of interest, are there any SHOCK troops whose front rank has bow, longbow, crossbow or firearm.

Highlanders, for example are Shock (Impact Foot) but have Bow*, not Bow.

Anyone know of anyone who are Shock AND Bow/Longbow/Crossbow/Firearm?

Perhaps it was just put in there for completeness.

Heavy Chariots with Bow, like Classical Indian and Early Carthaginian ?

[petedalby]

Heavy Chariots with Bow, like Classical Indian and Early Carthaginian ?

That works!

[dave_r]

The best example are the Ch'in infantry who are 1/2 MF, Impact Foot, Swordsmen, 1/2 MF Crossbow.

Try and work out what happens if you end up with a crossbowmen in the front rank with some Impact foot......

[petedalby]

Try and work out what happens if you end up with a crossbowmen in the front rank with some Impact foot......

Easy - if they declare a charge they have to pass a CMT to do so as they have CB armed MF in the front rank.

And if they don't declare a charge they must pass a CMT not to charge without orders as they are still shock troops.

The worst of both worlds.

[dave_r]

Try and work out what happens if you end up with a crossbowmen in the front rank with some Impact foot......

Easy - if they declare a charge they have to pass a CMT to do so as they have CB armed MF in the front rank.

And if they don't declare a charge they must pass a CMT not to charge without orders as they are still shock troops.

The worst of both worlds.

What if they've got their stakes deployed?

[bbotus]

Try and work out what happens if you end up with a crossbowmen in the front rank with some Impact foot......

Easy - if they declare a charge they have to pass a CMT to do so as they have CB armed MF in the front rank.

And if they don't declare a charge they must pass a CMT not to charge without orders as they are still shock troops.

The worst of both worlds.

Not so sure they'd have to pass a CMT to declare a charge. The sentence on page 64 says "Non-shock medium foot whose front rank has bow, longbow, ... must pass a CMT to charge ...". So if there are Xbow mixed in with shock in the front rank, they are still shock. They only test not to charge.

What if they've got their stakes deployed?

Stakes are only fortifications for foot defending against mounted (excluding elephants), page 129. And shock foot don't have to charge mounted anyway. So stakes don't affect whether or not they have to test to charge.