The Unit Factory

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

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McGuba
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by McGuba »

This is just a quick modification of the stock gfx, but might be useful for some:
Image
I really like that late war infantry with the Panzerschreck, but we would need the corresponding animation and sound as well, if I am right. Has anybody made it yet? If not, are there any volunteers? I do not have the neccessary skills to do so. :(
ImageImage
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bebro
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by bebro »

I could try making an anim for it. As for sounds, maybe VPaulus has a good idea...
VPaulus
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by VPaulus »

I had made a sound fro DMP's Panzerschreck. I've used a M1A1 Bazooka, I think that basically is the same principle.
But this a single sound, not integrated with other shooting elements. I could adapt it, but only after I finished updating my Sound Redux mod.
bebro
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by bebro »

No prob, of course only if you have the time. :)
Ballermann
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Ballermann »

Hi Bebro
Ähm, there is a new patch with new planes, will you reskin the new planes?
And you have made Indian HW Infantry will you make Australian HW Infantry too?
Sorry, for my bad school english...
Ralle
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Ralle »

Good question. Although I didn`t want to ask...
Lets`s hope he`ll do it...would complete the collection
Razz1
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Razz1 »

It looks like an Allied unit to me as they are holding the Panzer faust.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Panzerf ... 78&bih=931
Ralle
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Ralle »

Does Panzerfaust sound allied?
Anyways I think it looks like Panzerschreck...
IMHO
Ralle
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Ralle »

The term "Panzerfaust" is just a collective word for different man-carried anti-tank-guns
I think the gun in the picture is a "Panzerschreck".
"Panzerschreck" is a special kind of "Panzerfaust"...you can see the shield protecting the shoulder in the picture...
At least I think so...if I`m wrong please correct me....
bebro
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by bebro »

Ballermann wrote:Hi Bebro
Ähm, there is a new patch with new planes, will you reskin the new planes?
And you have made Indian HW Infantry will you make Australian HW Infantry too?
There's some stuff coming in for the new campaign, but not huge new unit packs. I can post something from time to time...;)

Edit: I could see to add v1.13 aircraft to my own air unit pack, but it will take a while...

As for the Ast HW guys - I used the standard Brit HW inf for those as well in the IJA mod, because I thought those helmets fit better there instead of those hats.

Re the debate about the Panzerschreck - yeah it's meant to be one indeed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerschreck

From what I read my impression was that this one was the more sophisticated weapon, while the Panzerfaust originally was rather cheap and simple, though still quite effective...
ThvN
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by ThvN »

Well, since it was asked... :wink:

The infantry .png image posted earlier shows a 'Panzerschreck'. Not a 'Panzerfaust', which was a completely different weapon.

'Panzerschreck' ('Tank frightener') is a nickname for a German bazooka, officically called the Raketen-Panzerbüchse (Rocket-Tank rifle or shotgun), abbreviated as' RPzB' . It was also sometimes nicknamed the 'Ofenrohr' (Stove pipe). A bazooka is a recoilless weapon, it is basically a tube, open on both ends, that fires a rocket. The rocket should burn completely inside the tube, expelling the exhaust gasses out of the back to equalize the firing forces to prevent recoil. This way half the fuel is wasted and range is short and muzzle velocity low, but the weapon can be made very light and the projectile can be relatively heavy. So the rocket burns very short, not like some rocket from an airplane. It sounds more like a slow gunshot, not like it does in most FPS games.

The RPzB fired an unguided rocket with a hollow charge warhead (HEAT), calibre 88mm. There were two main version, the RPzB 43 and the RPzB 54, the 43 didn't have a shield to protect the firer from the rocket blast, the later version (with shield) is depicted in the icon. As said, the rocket should use up all its fuel inside the tube, but this was not 100% perfect so a shield was added to protect against rocket exhaust gases. The weapon is crew-served, which means it is operated by a team of people, in this case a gunner and a loader, who also carried some extra ammunition.

The range is poor, wikipedia quotes and 'effective' range of 150m, but that is a meaningless number without knowing against what type of target. Against moving, unaware targets, 150 would be OK, for stationary target is could be much more, 250-400m. If the target were moving rapidly laterally across the firing position, 100-120m would be more realistic I guess.

Panzerfaust ('Tank fist'):
This is an individual weapon, so it was issued to a soldier and he carried and used it without extra help. It could not be reloaded, and it was a tube filled with black powder (old type of gunpowder as used in fireworks and antique musket and cannon). The blackpowder would fire a large projectile fitted on one end of the tube, the rest of the blast went out the back. This was to make sure there was no recoil. So this is not a rocket launcher, but a recoilless grenade launcher.

This is a cheap, one-use, throw-away weapon, unlike the Panzerschreck. The Panzerfaust was cheap and simple, but had an even shorter range, and a very curved trajectory, making aiming difficult. Ranges for early models are 30m, later on more powerful versions were made which could reach 60m and the last production model could reach 100m.

Movie time! Next up, an old German propaganda movie from 1943, demontrating different close-range anti-tank weapons. At 38 seconds, a demonstration of the Panzerschreck, followed by the Panzerfaust at 55 seconds. Both are early models.

Notice that the Panzerfaust is fired at a very short range, but still the gunner has to aim very high to hit. This early version was still called the 'Faustpatrone' (early name), and had a range of 30m. I also have a movie where the firing sound of the Panzerfaust can be more clearly heard, and it is markedly different from the Panzerschreck. And on a final note, if someone ever makes an animation, please note the backblast of these weapons, which can be lethal if someone/something was behind the weapon when it was fired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foty4VaRfXY

And as a bonus, demonstrations of the modern equivalents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZxCtAaXivM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-O1hQasMB0
Ralle
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Ralle »

This is a really good explanation...I didn`t want to go into detail...
But I have to say even today in German we call personal-anti-tank-guns (for 1 or 2 persons) "Panzerfaust" ....So it was an old weapon...but it was and is a hypernym
McGuba
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by McGuba »

Yes, a really nice explanation of yours, ThvN.

I would only add that there was a rather little known Hungarian manufactured Panzerschreck as well in the war, the 60mm 44.M rakéta pr. gránát vető (anti-aromour rocket grenade launcher), which was also called simply Páncélrém "armour frightener". As its designation says it was a smaller 60mm rocket launcher, just like the American Bazooka, entering service in 1944. One source says it was based on lend-leased American Bazookas captured from the Soviets in 1942, another claims it was based on the German Panzerschreck, and its tube is indeed very similar to it, still keeping the Bazooka's smaller calibre. However, it also differed from both, and it had certain advantages over the Panzerschreck: it was easier to manufacture and was said to have better ballistic performance. On the downside, it had somewhat worse armour penetration (100mm), but it was designed to be used against medium tanks, anyway, not heavy tanks like the IS-2. It's effective range is also similar to the Panzerschreck. According to my sources it became available from mid-1944, and was only used in larger numbers during the siege of Budapest. At the same time Hungarian units were also issued with the German Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust.

Specifications and a photo can be found here (somwhere in the middle of the page):
http://denes.us/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1155065723

Movie time, take two! Underaged Hungarian volunteers (actually kids...) training with the 60mm 44.M, while preparing for the defense of Budapest:
(Note that the sound of the firing in this video does not seem to be authentic, unfortunately. It sounds more like the Nebelwehrfehr in the end. :( )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2fHKwPwM8Y

Some time ago I "gave" it to the Hungarian 44 Infantry:
Image

and to the Motorized Inf 44, too:
Image

These may change, though, if someone comes up with an animation and sound for bebro's original icon. Currently these are still using the Bicycle and the Paratrooper animations.
ImageImage
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ThvN
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by ThvN »

McGuba, thanks for the info, really nice! The layout does make it look a little bit like the Panzerschreck. Also, if the rocket they fired in the movie is the 'live' round, than that design is certainly not a straight copy from either the Panzerschreck or the Bazooka, because those rockets do not look the same at all.

I found a better quality version of the youtube movie http://filmhiradok.nava.hu/watch.php?id=5877, and the sound is very strange, indeed. It could have been dubbed over?
McGuba
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by McGuba »

It could have been dubbed over?
I think so. I think they recorded the movie without the sound. In those days they did not have good quality microphones and other equipment, especially for outdoor filming. Then they added the sound in the studio later and used what material they had, in this case, supposedly the sound of the Nebelwehrfer. I am not absolutely sure about this, just specualting, though.

You can also find pictures and drawings of the rocket used by the 60mm 44.M here:

http://militiahungarorum.extra.hu/1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html
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ThvN
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by ThvN »

Thanks again! It's really nice to have something interesting to learn, after I have been filling out tax forms all evening... And indeed that looks nothing like a Bazooka or Panzerschreck round, and it is quite heavy for the calibre as well. So this was a unique, Hungarian design? Very impressive, under those wartime conditions.

BTW, about the animations, I was planning to try some modding with them in the near future, because I want to convert the 'AAquad1' animation for the 20mm Flakvierling to a horizontal firing animation, to use with my switchable anti-aircraft icons. If I can manage that I might have a look into some other animations, but I can't promise anything, since I haven't even tried it yet. If those .png files are 16-bit, it will be very difficult as no program I have access to works without problems with those files, the 8-bit .png are usually relatively easy.
ThvN
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by ThvN »

Well, it's the future now, and I've done some basic animation modding.

And so for my first contribution I made something easy: the Battleship fire animation is the stock game fires in the opposite direction when compared to other units. So I made a 'right' version, you can rename it to 'Battleship1.png' or edit the efx file, in that case don't forget to make a renamed copy of the attack sounds with the same name, otherwise it will have no sound. Remeber to change the offset in the efx, I haven't made exact adjustments yet but you can start with the opposite x-values of the current icon, so minus will be plus en vice versa. I tested it, it works and looks very reasonable.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/raq6rw
bebro
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by bebro »

Hey, thanks - this is something I brought up a while ago to be fixed in a patch. I have to check out your solution :)
ThvN
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by ThvN »

I tried to make an attack animation for Bebro's Panzerschreck infantry icon. I got a bit carried away and made a matching sound for it as well. And then I made two more, because I thought it would be nice to have three slightly different attack animations/sounds, like the other infantry icons.

They may look a bit strange at first, as I used a reversed and sped up version of the 'ATLight' animations for the big backblast. So it does not look like a Nebelwerfer firing, which would be way too slow. It fires quickly like a gun, with a lot of the blast/smoke coming out the back.

Maybe I can make some other variations as well, but the figure with the Panzerschreck/Bazooka/Páncélrém cannot be further back from the figure firing the machine pistol at the front, because the animation needs a lot of space. It won't fit together with the other guns' muzzle flashes otherwise. Just contact me if you have any questions about it, if it's not too hard to do I might be able to make some variations, but that would depend a lot on the positions of the figures (and my laziness, of course).


http://www.sendspace.com/file/hwv1jq

EDIT: this is a new file, existing animations slightly improved and I added extra animations/sounds for McGuba's Motorized Infantry. These extra animations are similar to those for Bebro's icon, but the standing figure with the rifle at the back has no animation/sound, so he can be removed or replaced with a figure without a gun.

This file also includes some slightly improved original animations for Bebro's icon, there was a small issue with a patch of smoke that looked strange. It turns out it is a small glitch in the original infantry animation which I had copied.
Alexkfabian
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Re: The Unit Factory

Post by Alexkfabian »

Hello Bebro,

If your schedule permits, would you kindly consider creating skins for the new allied planes that came with 1.20 patch? Your top quality work is much appreciated.

Thank you!
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