Allies on flank march

[Martin0112]

Hello,

until last weekend for me the rule fpr allies on flank marchs was absolutelly clear:

When having allies on the flank march, all allied troops must be there and the flank march must be led by the allied commander.

My opponent was now doing the following.
He used a normal Sub-Commander for the flank march, giving him 2 normal BG'S and one allied BG on the flank march.
I said this is not covered by the rules, and we checked it.

We found: When an allied commander is leading the flank march, the whole allied contingent must be on the flank march.
But: The opposite case as described above is not forbidden in the rules.
Is this true? Or is there another rule we have not found?

Can you please help us here?

[Robert241167]

Hi there

Page 152 of V2 says:

"An allied commander can only make an outflanking march with troops from his own ally contingent and must take his whole contingent".

Rob

[hazelbark]

Can you please help us here?

RBS will tell you I suspect it is contrary to the intent of the authors.

[philqw78]

It can be done as you said but becomes difficult as all troops on a flank march must arrive within comkmand distance of their general. If you have an ally TC he must therefore be within 4 MU of his troops when they arrive

[Martin0112]

Well, it is not said it mus be a general in line of command.
It's only said it must be within command range of their commander.
The word 'their' is not specifying what commander it is (in my eyes)

The intention of the rule is clear in my eyes, but this is something that should be part of the FAQ's to make clear, that allied troops can only be on a allies flank march, and not with a non-allied commander.
This will avoid all misinterpretatations

[petedalby]

I think that it is quite a stretch to suggest that it is unclear - sorry.

Page 29 is very clear on line of command. And page 153 also makes it clear that a flank marching BG must be in range of 'their' commander at the end of their first move.

An allied BG can only have 1 Commander that be described as 'their' and a Sub General from the core army is not it.

As a stratagem it is fine. You could declare a flank march with core and allied troops - but any allied BG must end their move within command distance of their Allied Commander. The BGs don't have to come on in the same place.

The rules on this have been unchanged for 5+ years and I don't believe a FAQ is required.

[Martin0112]

Well, if this means, a normal sub can have allied trrops with him, and the only point is, that the allied commander must be in range when they appear, than that's fine for me.

I only wanted to know what the correct interpretation is.

[philqw78]

The problem comes when the general cannot be within command range. Say he is over the other side of the table or has been killed. I haven't seen anything in the rules that says what happens to the flank marching allies then.
Though this subject has been brought up before and I'm certain RBS commented that it could be done subject to being in command range.

[Martin0112]

Well, if the general is not there, the BG straggles, in my eyes the easiest solution

[philqw78]

You mean a bit like if you do a flank march with cavalry on a side that has a difficult river?

[petedalby]

I only wanted to know what the correct interpretation is.

I am sorry Martin

I got carried away!

[Martin0112]

Well, OK, I bring you back

My understanding is:
A sub-commander is allowed to have allied BGson a flank march, but when arriving on the table, the allied commander must be in command range for the allied BG.
If this is not the case, the allied BG's are staggled.

Is this common sense?

[KillingZoe]

Well, there is no direct connaction between the term "their commander" and the term "commander in line of command" in the rules. I personly until now read the term "their commander" in the flank marching section as "the commander, that led the flank march."

The interpretation now given here would trigger another odd effect. It would allow to split a flank march.
Lets say a flank march of two non-allied BGs arrives with a non-allied TC. I now could field one of the BGs directly at my opponents long edge with the flank marching TC. The other BG could arrive directly on my own long edge, far away of the other flank marching unit, as long as I have another non-allied commander there. This does not feel right to me.

I really think, having a point in the errata that simply says that an allied BG can only flank march with its own allied commander is the best way to deal with it. I guess this the way most people played it anyway, and propably this is the reason why no questions about it turned up for such a long time.

Thomas
(who had to rule this situation in martins game)

[zoltan]

So, the permitted flank marches are:
1. An allied commander with only allied BGs
2. A sub commander with only 'main body' troops

The following flank marches are not permitted:
3. Mixed BGs of allied and 'main body' BGs (regardless of what type of commander is with them)

[petedalby]

So, the permitted flank marches are:
1. An allied commander with only allied BGs
2. A sub commander with only 'main body' troops

The following flank marches are not permitted:
3. Mixed BGs of allied and 'main body' BGs (regardless of what type of commander is with them)

To keep things simple I agree that this makes perfect sense - and indeed is the way 99.9% of players, at least in my experience, seem to play it.

[KillingZoe]

Sounds good for me

[Martin0112]

What we need is something like an 'official' statement by the authors.
Will we get this somehow?

[petedalby]

You could try a PM to Richard Bodley-Scott?

[rbodleyscott]

So, the permitted flank marches are:
1. An allied commander with only allied BGs
2. A sub commander with only 'main body' troops

The following flank marches are not permitted:
3. Mixed BGs of allied and 'main body' BGs (regardless of what type of commander is with them)

That was certainly the intention of the rules writers, which must be obvious even to the perpetrator. (Though, of course, he will claim otherwise).

Well it seems that he can do it if he does not mind everyone else considering him an (expletive deleted), but he will have to make sure his AG is within range when the troops arrive, or they can't arrive. And won't that be funny for his opponent.

As a doyen of flank marches myself, I would advise him that his time would be better spent designing his army structure to facilitate flank marching rather than finding ways to twist the RAW.

(Yeah, the RAW doesn't explicitly say you cannot do it, but it doesn't say you can't nuke the enemy either. And I don't recall anything in the RAW about not whacking your opponent with a piece of 2 x 4. ).

[philqw78]

So, which army lists get nukes and how many points per Kton, and will you remember to duck?