Tournament Nazi's

[ravenflight]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to run a tournament in a few months time. I'm wondering how much of a Nazi I should be. Last thing I want to do is ruin people's fun.

My thoughts on extreme Nazism that MAY be beneficial (these are things that I think grown men (and women) should be able to work out for themselves, but seems (to me) to be things that reduce enjoyability - so spell them out at the beginning):

1 - Dice rolling conventions.
1a - Outline what is considered a 'cocked dice' before the game. To my way of thinking the dice must be on the table, must be away from troops and terrain... or in other words flat on the surface of the table. Some people say that you can roll on terrain if it's flat... my way of thinking is that it is usually true to be able to find a 12" round surface on your side of the table where there is nothing... use that!!!
1b - Outline dice counting. What happens if you roll your dice and get a really good result but then go 'oh, I've rolled too many/too few dice'. To my way of thinking it doesn't matter. You re-roll the lot. The reason being is that people try to work out mathematical ways of determining which dice count and which don't... but only when they get good rolls. If they roll badly for some reason their mathematical skills fail them and they have to roll again. I think that if you can't count your dice correctly I don't trust your maths, so re-roll them all.

I'll think of others, but that's all I've got for now.

Any other considerations or comments on my above?

[kevinj]

In the UK the tournament scene has become much more relaxed in the last few years and the Fog R players are among the most reasonable of the lot. Most will be able to resolve issues like this without any input from the organiser. So generally a light touch is better than an authoritarian approach.

For your dice rolling questions:
1) I'm happy to go with whatever my opponent likes. Some want it flat on the table, others are more relaxed. You can generally resolve it the first time it comes up and go from there. If I'm using a bucket of dice army I'll normally make sure I've got some kind of tray I can roll my dice into, it's easy to keep 1 or 2 on the table but 15 is a different matter. As a default, flat on the table causes least potential for disputes.
2) Generally re-roll the lot, unless there's an obvious solution, e.g. I rolled 4 dice, they all missed. I should have only rolled 3 but that's tough, I don't get to re-roll them all. Alternatively, I rolled 3 and should have rolled 4. Just roll the extra one.

The simplest thing is to set out a list of playing conditions with things that you think may cause disputes and then you can pretty much forget it. Here's a couple of samples from the UK:

http://www.bhgs.org.uk/field-of-glory-renaissance.html
http://www.maws.org.uk/ndbml/index.htm

Anyway, never mind the Tournament Nazis, the Punctuation Police will be after you for that apostrophe in your title...

[quackstheking]

I'm with Kevin on this one - keep it relaxed and let the players agree before the game starts what is a "good roll". Some are OK as long as the dice is flat, some want it clear of all terrain. As long as you both agree the convention then all is easy!

I also agree with Kevin on the re-rolls : too many, reroll them all; too few then roll the extra dice.

One of my personal "likes" for melee rolling is for each player to roll their dice separately with the player with the player whose bound it is rolling first. I like to know what I've got to beat or if it's my go, get my 4 x 6's in first (or bemoan my luck when it's 4 x 3's! ).

As regards Tournament Nazi's - I thought they all played Flames of War!

Don

[Vespasian28]

One of my personal "likes" for melee rolling is for each player to roll their dice separately with the player with the player whose bound it is rolling first. I like to know what I've got to beat or if it's my go, get my 4 x 6's in first (or bemoan my luck when it's 4 x 3's! ).

I am a big fan of this as well but more from the point of getting things right. I have played games where my opponents have forgotten they can re-roll(OK less likely with the tournament crowd) or get things wrong in the heat of battle. It also means I have the other players unbelieving attention when I roll nothing but 1's again

[grahambriggs]

Others that may be worth thinking through:

Deployment errors. "sorry I put down the wrong number of BGs that time". OK, add/subtract as necessary. Don't move the others, and I get the chance to redploy anything I put down after your error.

"Can I take that move back?" Player moves a BG, then some others. Then realises the first one they moved a bit wrong. Answer: Yes, as long as You either marked it or the precise placement doesn't matter too much.

Marking original positions. Please leave a base behind until you are happy that you want to move the BG there and you can put your stick down to show you've not moved too far. Because if you move too far and don't mark it there's no real way to fix that.

And a personal bugbear:

Most people are very loose about wheeling. The inner corner tends to crab sideways, especially when it's critical. So please put something there to mark the corner.

[timmy1]

Graham's point about wheeling is much more likely to be a problem. I picked up a tip from Mick Hood; get some flat wooden coffee stirrers (4 should be enough) and mark them up in 1, 2, 3 and 4 base widths. Place the appropriate size on the not moving front corner of the BG and measure the wheel the other side - hold it in place with one hand and move the BG to the line with the other. Graham is right, some players don't understand how shallow a wheel is nor the impact of a corner moving. I've found that this enables me to get it right almost all the time and saves most arguements.

[Vespasian28]

Totally agree about the wheeling too and the use of a wheeling tool highly recommended. It's annoying when you do wheeling correctly, sometimes to your own disadvantage, and your oppponents are "slightly" more loose in their application ending to their advantage, especially in FOGR where there is no voluntary sliding.
Always a good sign that a wheel is about to go pear shaped when your opponent starts moving the farthest base first then lines up on that. Good practice here, especially if you dont have a coffee stirrer, is to move the front rank first leaving the rest behind until you and your opponent are happy with what you have done.

[ravenflight]

I find I'm the same about wheeling, however I DO think that the wheel rules on some brigade wheels can be difficult.

For example, if you have a formation where you have two Battle Groups with a third and fourth behind and slightly to the left and right of the battle groups in front, then wheel that block around... well, bugger me that can be complex.

As someone who is a definite Nazi (to myself) when it comes to wheeling (and having nice terrain... and having nicely painted miniatures) I find the Brigade Wheel a little on the 'frustration beyond all measure.

[madaxeman]

Brigade moves are all at march distances. So a bit of fudge doesn't really matter that much

I'd personally hate to see any of these things listed in this thread proscribed by the organiser. They can all be decided and agreed in-game, and I can only see pain from prescribing them in advance.

[alasdair2204]

To be fair in all the competitions in the uk none of these seem to be an issue and tend to be agreed before hand between players

obviously sometimes players wheel incorrectly and things like that but we tend to deal with it between ourselves

cheers

Alasdair

[Vespasian28]

we tend to deal with it between ourselves

Swords or pistols in the car park?