3d modelling for BA - Software requirements?

[GottaLove88s]

There might be an easy answer to this, ie. 'of course not', but forgive my naiveté and let's ask it anyhow...

Is there a cheap (or even free) app on either Mac or iPad (more likely iPad knowing Mac software prices) that might enable somebody to create/edit 'Slith cartoon style' 3D models for warships and then export them back to BA so that we could test them in a game?

No animations required (for now). Just the simplest of 3d modelling, exportable back into the BA game engine.

Even if you don't know an actual app, any directional advice (other folks/groups that tried, companies to look at, websites that might help) would be much appreciated... thanks guys...

Fingers crossed...

[Richcat]

Hi GL88

I wish it was easy. I could have knocked out lots of buildings, tanks etc etc

I have always modeled in Trimble sketchup (PC and Mac)to create simple 3d models, and then export as 3ds to get into Gmax (PC) to export as s3f file for BA (which I adapted from the Slitherine Max exporter available from Modders corner)
I use unwrap3d(PC) for the uvmapping with photoshop elements to create the dds files.

There is also a s3f file exporter for Blender available from Modders corner sticky.

Basically the Siltherine guys use Max. again which has an exporter for s3f files. The exporter is as a download from this site.

A couple of guys in the past mentioned Fragmotion (PC), I looked into it and tried it out for a while and eventually bought it .
It does modeling, animation, uv mapping etc I was even able to nearly get the infantry models with animation to import from the directx files the Slitherine guys have been put out there in the past, which have always been a problem due the biped system used in max.

I was hoping to model in sketchup, export into Fragmotion rig and animate here if required and then export as an s3f.

I'm still slowly working on an exporter for Fragmotion(PC). I think it been two years now and have run of steam as I'm not a programmer by trade - If there is anyone out there who could help please pm me. I have some of the basics done but am stuck at the moment on what Matrix is actually required for animations.

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Richcat,

OUCH!! Ok, that sounds like a total mare... But, reading your comment about starting with Sketchup made me go back to the free Sketchup models on google... There's guy there who posted under Zilla517 who seems to have uploaded a lot of basic warship models that look free to download... I've included a few links as quick shortcuts, and some images of what I could find on Sketchup...

Theoretically, could we download these free .skp files, edit them to match Slith's simple cartoon style, and then perhaps persuade Slith to help us to convert them to .s4f? Less is definitely more, so long as we could approximately match the right shape, enough to make an opponent think, OH NO!, that's a battleship (the same way we do for Tigers now, lol...)

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?tags=IJN
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... tags=akagi
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... tags=hiryu
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... ags=mogami
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... s=yorktown

Hiryu class carrier


Tone class heavy cruiser


Mogami class light cruiser


Fuso class battleship


One-of-a-kind Yamato


Cargo ships for all


After the huge help from you & Amaris to get Dieppe started, I feel a world of opportunity in Pacific scenarios where some of these 3d beasts could sharpen their claws... in ship to ship action, or to support/fend off landings...

[pipfromslitherine]

If you can somehow get the models into Max or gMax then you should be able to export them. You would probably need/want to set up some FX points etc for them (so they could burn or explode etc). Fire animations for multi-turret units could get complex - we can get you the particle tool but it is most definitely non-trivial!

Cheers

Pip

[GottaLove88s]

Hey Richcat,

Reading you write, 'I wish it was easy', and Pip's, 'it's most definitely non trivial', on the same thread, alarm bells have begun to ring awfully loud... however, let me run with this...

For a simplistic test, if you've got Sketchup, could we have a go at converting one of the freely downloadable ships, say the Hiryu class or the Fuso class above, from its free .skp download to a .3ds?

Do you have Max too? It sounds specialist (for which, I'm reading expensive, grimace). If I understand correctly, we need Max (or GMax?) or somebody nice who might enjoy occasional access to it (anyone? help please? ) to convert our .3ds to a pair of .s3f (3d shape) & .dds (skin) files?

Then we could see what our test ship model might look like in the BA Editor... (leaving all of the funky animations, like gently bouncing up and down in water during 'rest' animations, turning turrets, etc, to add somewhere later down the line)

Worth a try? Or am I still grossly oversimplifying...?

I wish it was easy.

I have always modeled in Trimble sketchup (PC and Mac)to create simple 3d models, and then export as 3ds to get into Gmax (PC) to export as s3f file for BA (which I adapted from the Slitherine Max exporter available from Modders corner). I use unwrap3d(PC) for the uvmapping with photoshop elements to create the dds files. There is also a s3f file exporter for Blender available from Modders corner sticky. Basically the Siltherine guys use Max. again which has an exporter for s3f files. The exporter is as a download from this site.

A couple of guys in the past mentioned Fragmotion (PC), I looked into it and tried it out for a while and eventually bought it .
It does modeling, animation, uv mapping etc I was even able to nearly get the infantry models with animation to import from the directx files the Slitherine guys have been put out there in the past, which have always been a problem due the biped system used in max.

I was hoping to model in sketchup, export into Fragmotion rig and animate here if required and then export as an s3f. I'm still slowly working on an exporter for Fragmotion(PC). I think it been two years now and have run of steam as I'm not a programmer by trade - If there is anyone out there who could help please pm me. I have some of the basics done but am stuck at the moment on what Matrix is actually required for animations.

If you can somehow get the models into Max or gMax then you should be able to export them. You would probably need/want to set up some FX points etc for them (so they could burn or explode etc). Fire animations for multi-turret units could get complex - we can get you the particle tool but it is most definitely non-trivial!

Cheers
Pip

[Richcat]

Hi GL88
Just for fun have been working on it since late last night, using the Akagi model, never mind doing my day job inbetween, I don't have max and no way I could afford it for a hobby.
I have no problem exporting to 3ds with sketchup pro and importing in Gmax which is free, but when exporting it as s3f file it takes hours which is unusual. Then you put the s3f file in BA, when it first runs in BA it gets converted into a s4f file and you can delete the s3f.
I'm getting alot of errors and there are no uv maps (The 3sf file as it stands now is over 7meg !). I have been able fleetingly at one point to get it as an object but it was huge and crashed my system.
The model needs a lot of work in sketchup to simplyfy it, I have reduced the size, but not done any work on making it simpler. If I get time I will post something.
Are these model free to use? and what about copyright. Call me old fashion but even if where free shouldn't we contact the people who did them, just to let them know. I do see alot talk about this on the sketchup forums.
We could use them as a starting point, I would much prefer to build our own as Slitherine do, you can make them alot more resourse efficient and BA friendly , and we can do what we want with them - it just takes time, but you have got me hooked.

Pip - I would very interested in th particle editor, it has been mentioned a few times in the long distant past.

[GottaLove88s]

Hey Richcat, that's great news! Am REALLY excited by what you've been up to...

Looking at BA's .S3F file for the Freighter recently sent by TwoEyes it was 22K, compiled down to 8K as an .S4F.
But this compares with 400-900K for the most of (even the simplest) 3d WW2 warship models on those Sketchup links...

Adding that thought to your experience, uh oh scary processing times!!, I wonder if we're trying to over-engineer a beautiful solution to a simple problem, just to meet our own mental images?

Let me explain it this way... When we started investigating this, I had an approximate idea of what a Jap Carrier should look like... A large flat top. For most players, that's probably enough... But since looking around, I now know they usually have red lower hulls, a red circle on a wooden flight deck, a cutaway midsection, etc, etc... That's probably enough for even the pickiest OCD amongst us.

So instead of trying to convert these apparently huge Sketchup files of near perfect scale models, why don't we try it the other way? Camouflage Slith's FairMile to look like an Akagi? Sorry, I didn't mean to make you fall out of your chair laughing... Don't choke... Seriously, don't choke, lol...

I have no idea how to draw, let alone to use Sketchup, as you can see, but I've cut a jpeg of a Fairmile B into Photoshop below, repainted its lower hull IJN red, copied the wooden colour from the centre of the FairmileB's decking and extended that out to be a flight deck, then added a red sun... Ok, faaar from perfect... but in your nimble hands, with better flight deck markings, and a bridge and flight control tower to one side, maybe even with a cutaway midsection, I reckon this might work... at least enough to fool players into thinking it's an Akagi when they're playing... and that would do, wouldn't it? Maybe add three Zeros on top (Amaris' Me109 model in NAM is a perfect Zero )

What do you reckon?

[Amaris]

Love it!

[Richcat]

Hi GL88
No problem - Looks great to me too and alot simpler
Its more in keeping with BA style and their very efficient models, which have a lot of detail added in the dds
Its a good first step and we can make them more detailed as we proceed.
There are two ways to go
1. Start afresh and model from scratch. Which will take time
2. If I could get hold of the 3DS file of any boats from Slitherine (twoeyes), this would have animations etc uvmapping etc and that would be great and a lot quicker. They have kindly released the max files, but you have to have max to read it, they do not work with any other program. In the past the guys have kindly release some tanks etc as 3ds files.

EDIT Also if I could get my hands on an fighter aircraft 3ds with animation, could re skin and use to create other planes - ie spitfire, zero, etc wonder if we could have a kamikaze.

[morge4]

What do you reckon?

Very nice work!!!

[Richcat]

Got it to work eventually

Akagi.jpg (48.12 KiB) Viewed 7719 times

[GottaLove88s]

Got it to work eventually

Akagi.jpg

OMG!!! WOW!!! That's incredible Richcat... Nice job!!!

How did you do it in the end? How long did it take? What are the problem/time consuming steps?

How big is the .S4F? Can you move it around without the game crashing?

Now... can you imagine a fleet of 2 of those, accompanied by 1 battleship (length 4), 3 cruisers (length 3), 4 destroyers (length 2), and a squadron of LCTs and LCAs...

Guadalcanal is beginning to feel possible as a wicked project for Summer'13...

[Richcat]

Hi GL88
Baisc trial and error but got there in the end.
The s4f is nearly a 4Meg file and it took hours to get a 3sf file, and that does not include any animation, effects etc.
The low res jepg makes it look better than it is, there are problems with faces, smoothing etc, as I have said before this basically it needs to be a lot simplar model, with proper uvmapping (a summer 13 project)
As there is no uvmapping I just used a blue grey dummy.tga file, so its all just one colour.
I have it as a object so far, just to see if it would work, haven't tried moving it around

[GottaLove88s]

4MB?!?! Ouch... but still, RESPECT, man...
I guess you've shown that it's possible...
Fleets of these babies would be something else...

[Amaris]

Got it to work eventually

Akagi.jpg

I want it !!

[pipfromslitherine]

Hi GL88
Baisc trial and error but got there in the end.
The s4f is nearly a 4Meg file and it took hours to get a 3sf file, and that does not include any animation, effects etc.
The low res jepg makes it look better than it is, there are problems with faces, smoothing etc, as I have said before this basically it needs to be a lot simplar model, with proper uvmapping (a summer 13 project)
As there is no uvmapping I just used a blue grey dummy.tga file, so its all just one colour.
I have it as a object so far, just to see if it would work, haven't tried moving it around

4Mb sounds like either it has many 10s of 1000s of faces, or there is mesh animation being output from something?

Cheers

Pip

[Richcat]

Hi Pip
You hit the nail on the head toooooo many faces , and there is no animation at all.

[morge4]

Got it to work eventually

Akagi.jpg

Very nice Richcat!!!

[GottaLove88s]

Gents, I was going to try experimenting with a 3d object design app for iPad called Autoq3d...

Apparently, "AutoQ3D CAD allows you to export to 3DQ, OBJ, STL, DXF file formats"

Does anybody know if these can be converted into anything that BA can use?

I still haven't (quite) given up on this Pacific Campaign idea (yet)...

[GottaLove88s]

Hey Richcat, I can get complexity down to 1,500-2,500 polygons with some really neat core warship models... But is that simple enough for BA to cope with?

Examples here -> viewtopic.php?f=104&t=43437