What happened to range of AA guns?

[timek28]

I've been playing GC West 42/43 with the latest patch (1.14). What has happened with the 8.8 and 12.8 AA guns? Their range is inconsistent. Sometimes they can fire regularly 3 hexes away, sometimes I have to put the gun beneath the plane because it cannot fire on the nearest hex?? In defense guns work alright all the time, but on offense there is no rule around the range.

What is this? Some kind of line of fire simulation or what?

[Kerensky]

This is actually a feature that allows people to move AD guns under aircraft instead of being forced to fire.

To fire without moving your AD units now, you have to selected your AD unit, THEN toggle air/ground mode to AIR mode, and now you can fire your AD gun without moving it.

[testarossa]

I believe with the newest versions you may now need to click on the air/land toggle button. After clicking to airborne toggle setting you should be able to fire the aa gun as you normally would in the past

[testarossa]

Jinx

[testarossa]

Kerensky,

Is there an advantage to moving the AD unit under the target, or even just to reduce the range?

[Kerensky]

AD units perform equally at any range, but only provide supporting air defense fire when adjacent to a unit being attacked by aircraft.

[huertgenwald]

AFAIK, no advantage. AFAIR in older PzC Versions you couldn't move an AA gun under a plane hex, 'cause the only option was to shoot at the plane in those days.

[timek28]

I see..

One more question. Since I'm playing GC West 42/43 - is there any advantage of choosing Salerno landings instead of trying to chase Italians? I've intuitively knew before that chasing Italians would be easier so I went for those missions. They where nice refreshment from constant pressure on my units. Also I was able to capture some nice equipment in this way. After lots of missions I finally felt like I was attacking once again

However if I choose different path - Salerno landings and trying to stop Americans, the mission is much much harder than trying to chase Italians (obviously). But what are the perks of this besides trying to prove that I know to play on harder difficulties? Are there any units to be captured or so? I find defending around Salerno a tedious task, as I can form only pockets of resistance, without real front, the number of US troops is endless (as usual), and on the top of that not only am I supposed to stop them but to counterattack and reclaim territory!

I can only imagine what lies ahead. 2 more campaigns of struggling defense in every mission... Oh well

I might be going with Italians at the end just to give me a break...

[ThvN]

timek, I think the Salerno path gives more prestige, but it might be needed. As for capturable units: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=39382 Both paths have something capturable on offer, but your own units will be better I guess.

[timek28]

ThvN, I see that Salerno gives opportunity to capture a Wolverine which is very nice. I got a bit frustrated trying to play Salerno as there is not a single position of attack where US attack is not numerous. I might give it a second try after I replay Messina in order to get 2 more planes and more prestige which might give me an edge against US forces in Salerno.

Also I will try to position my units for a better defense. I will avoid trying to rush to meet US forces at first ten or so turns. I did that and ended scrambling around my units in frantic effort to avoid encirclement of much more numerous US troops. I will try to form two strong-points with large entrenchment on rough terrain with strong AR and AA support and go off from there. If even this doesn't help too much, and if US troops still continue to pour after the 10th turn I might go for the Italians instead. But knowing the GC east scenarios of similar nature, there must be a turn after which enemy troops stop pouring and that gives opportunity for counterattack..

[ThvN]

About AA units, I usually keep a single 88mm FlaK, and buy a few motorized AA units. These are then glued to (mobile) artillery units, as these seem to be magnets for the AI planes (Wurfrahmen is some sort of catnip for Fighter-bombers). The AA units eat core slots, but I deploy them only if I expect trouble. They are cheap, and serve a couple of purposes: It makes sure I can keep my fighters better concentrated and free to 'hunt', and AAA can sometimes engage enemy aircraft first, and this can make a big difference in losses of my fighters by return fire.

[wargovichr]

There CLEARLY is a bug such as in some battles in East '42 ...that when you are ready to attack enemy air the AA will NOT fire unless it is moved first and the AA WAS in AA firing position.

[Razz1]

There CLEARLY is a bug such as in some battles in East '42 ...that when you are ready to attack enemy air the AA will NOT fire unless it is moved first and the AA WAS in AA firing position.

This is actually a feature that allows people to move AD guns under aircraft instead of being forced to fire.

To fire without moving your AD units now, you have to selected your AD unit, THEN toggle air/ground mode to AIR mode, and now you can fire your AD gun without moving it.

hit the tab key, then you can fire.

[boredatwork]

The illustrated version:

Note the Air/Ground Unit toggle position on the lower right:



^ View Ground Units = Movement




^ View Air Units = Fire at Air Units



(although my preference would be to change it to shift or alt + click as more streamlined)

[wargovichr]

VERY nice screen capture examples BUT I use 88s almost exclusively as they are left in a dismounted ready to fire AA state from the previous turn NOT in anti-tank mode. Your screen capture shows a non 88 AA. For the 88...the same thing??? Doesn't make sense. Or am I just thick?

FYI: I use 88s for their dual use habits...AA and anti-tank. In some battles it is key, in my experience, to convert the mobile non-88 AA auxiliaries into 88s for their dual use capabilities especially against those unexpected hard-to-kill T-34s and KVs ... take right up to the front but one hex behind the advancing line ready to help out against enemy armor next turn!

[ThvN]

VERY nice screen capture examples BUT I use 88s almost exclusively as they are left in a dismounted ready to fire AA state from the previous turn NOT in anti-tank mode. Your screen capture shows a non 88 AA. For the 88...the same thing??? Doesn't make sense. Or am I just thick?

FYI: I use 88s for their dual use habits...AA and anti-tank. In some battles it is key, in my experience, to convert the mobile non-88 AA auxiliaries into 88s for their dual use capabilities especially against those unexpected hard-to-kill T-34s and KVs ... take right up to the front but one hex behind the advancing line ready to help out against enemy armor next turn!

wargovichr, I'm pretty sure you are not thick, a multiplayer friend of mine had the same problem; it was unclear to him why the AA guns suddenly would not engage units within range... I'm hesitant to merge the topics about this issue, as it's actually a little bug that has been fixed, but it has people confused.

Boredatwork posted some nice screenshots (thank you for that, I didn't have time to make some myself) in just about every thread about this issue, but I only recently put an elaborate explanation in one of them, based on what Keldorkatarn already said: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=43016#p411021 Basically, a bug has been fixed, and now the AA units need a bit more user interaction to work properly, but if you do, they are now actually more useful.

If you have any questions about it, just ask, it is a subtle change but it can be very confusing. I'm partly responsible for it, since I complained about the 'old' system, so I would really like to help clear up any confusion that it has caused.

[boredatwork]

The "Yes it still works with 88s" version.

LOOK AT WHAT BUTTON IS BEING PRESSED.

The button I am pressing in the different screen shots is the circled "(TAB) TOGGLE GROUND/AIR SURFACE" button near the Purchase "$" button, NOT the "SWITCH (W)" button above "clear (X,Y)" that switches an 88 between AT and AA modes.

The 8.8cm Flak is in AA mode in both screen shots - I'm not touching the "Switch (W)" mode button.



^ By default when I select any AA, being a ground unit, it defaults to viewing ground units - notice the 2 bunkers are big while the tac bombers above them are small. In this view AA units move by default ***if there is an empty space under the air units.*** Obviously if it can't move under an air unit, either because there is a ground unit or terrain blocking it's path, OR you've already moved it this turn, then it gives you the option to fire by default, which is why I can still target the aircraft over the bunkers, the bunkers preventing me from moving there.



^ Notice in this shot, with my 88 still selected, I've hit the ground/air button and I'm now viewing the air units - the tac bombers are big and the bunkers underneath are small. In this view an AA unit will fire at an aircraft, in this case either the Pe-2 or the fighter, even though there is an empty space under it.

[wargovichr]

OH...OH-OH...OH...OH-OH-OH!
THAT button! I feel less thick already.
Thank you bordeatwork. Great illustrations.
Salute with >heal click<