Allied: Italian Offensive

[Longasc]

Disbanding the Light Cruiser gave me 1300 Prestige.

I disbanded it as I had not a single scenario where I could deploy it so far, no idea when I finally get to Crete or another naval scenario.

It is a really nice idea to give players a Light Cruiser! -> But then please mention it in the scenario:
"If you manage to safe the Light Cruiser HMS Insertfancyname, you may keep it under your command for future naval operations. However, we will be focused on desert operations for the near future and you might want to give away the unit for extra prestige."

As nice as it sounds, I think saving the cruiser should just give a little extra prestige and it should not carry over. It is rather going to confuse new players, as it already manages to confuse us. If the Cruiser is to stay, start it as "core" unit and perhaps allow it to be placed by the player, as the sudden inclusion in the core of the player makes it hard to get if this is a core or an aux unit. Regarding those, the campaign doesn't teach new players the differences between aux and core units and the cruiser adds to the confusion.

After Taranto I also had the problem that I started the scenario with a Hurricane, bought another one and next scenario I had only one Hurricane left but still the Cruiser in the core. Another player also reported a "lost" unit that didn't carry over to the next scenario.

[Ballacraine]

Reference the Light Cruiser issue.

I feel if it survives, it should be available as an auxiliary in subsequent relevant scenarios, not a core unit.

Balla .

[Zhivago]

I retreated the cruiser and it appeared in my core the next scenario, but I was never able to place it in any sea hexes. I ended up disbanding it for prestige. Is this how it was planned, or is this a flaw?

[Kerensky]

This probably could be fixed directly in the engine: disbanding aux units should not give any prestige to the player. These units do not "belong" to the player, so why would he get prestige for them?

Well, in DLC 42/43 West, this disbanding mechanic is directly incorporated into the campaign design. A player, if they choose, can freely disband all of their Italian auxiliaries for a significant and instant prestige injection.

However if they do, they face the Etna Line battle with a prestige rich, but still very small sized force to hold the line. After that, Messina is pretty much impossible to achieve a DV without extra aux units, as the core size is simply too small to hold the line on two fronts and satisfy the evacuation requirement. No DV in Messina, no special overstrength prototype Do-335 and Ta-152. The choice is up to the player which avenue to now pursue. Disbanding AUX units takes away this choice and flexibility, which as shown, can otherwise be incorporated as a meaningful feature and choice of play style for the player. After all, you can get prestige anywhere, but where else can you access units with a modified base strength value that appear as prototypes ahead of their time?

In the case of 1945 West, to prevent abuse of V weapon disbandment, their price was adjusted way down. As they can never be purchased and reinforcement on them is pretty much pointless, that solved the issue nicely, but again still allowed players to decide "do i want to use this bonus AUX unit, or blow it up for prestige injection?"

So in this case, why not present the player with a similar option. Use this cruiser as a bonus that would otherwise be unobtainable, or disband for instant injection. If instant injection is a problem, adjust the price of the cruiser. Perhaps I am mistaken, but there is no real effect of having naval warships be priced at very high prestige. What scenario has the situation where a warship ever gets replacements? As a reminder, they have specials rules that they MUST be in a port to reinforce, and only gain 1 strength per reinforcement action, even going from 1 to 2 strength takes a full turn.

Even the only scenario in the game purely focused on naval action, Hunters in the Atlantic, the idea of reinforcing a warship is preposterous because of the mechanics behind the process.

[Zhivago]

This probably could be fixed directly in the engine: disbanding aux units should not give any prestige to the player. These units do not "belong" to the player, so why would he get prestige for them?

Well, in DLC 42/43 West, this disbanding mechanic is directly incorporated into the campaign design. A player, if they choose, can freely disband all of their Italian auxiliaries for a significant and instant prestige injection.

However if they do, they face the Etna Line battle with a prestige rich, but still very small sized force to hold the line. After that, Messina is pretty much impossible to achieve a DV without extra aux units, as the core size is simply too small to hold the line on two fronts and satisfy the evacuation requirement. No DV in Messina, no special overstrength prototype Do-335 and Ta-152. The choice is up to the player which avenue to now pursue. Disbanding AUX units takes away this choice and flexibility, which as shown, can otherwise be incorporated as a meaningful feature and choice of play style for the player. After all, you can get prestige anywhere, but where else can you access units with a modified base strength value that appear as prototypes ahead of their time?

In the case of 1945 West, to prevent abuse of V weapon disbandment, their price was adjusted way down. As they can never be purchased and reinforcement on them is pretty much pointless, that solved the issue nicely, but again still allowed players to decide "do i want to use this bonus AUX unit, or blow it up for prestige injection?"

So in this case, why not present the player with a similar option. Use this cruiser as a bonus that would otherwise be unobtainable, or disband for instant injection. If instant injection is a problem, adjust the price of the cruiser. Perhaps I am mistaken, but there is no real effect of having naval warships be priced at very high prestige. What scenario has the situation where a warship ever gets replacements? As a reminder, they have specials rules that they MUST be in a port to reinforce, and only gain 1 strength per reinforcement action, even going from 1 to 2 strength takes a full turn.

Even the only scenario in the game purely focused on naval action, Hunters in the Atlantic, the idea of reinforcing a warship is preposterous because of the mechanics behind the process.

Then it should not be permitted. I got like 1500 prestige for disbanding it.

[produit]

DV 19/20. FM. OS all tanks to 15. Ending prestige 1271.
Bought a fighter.
Easy to play scenario as tanks with a strength of 15 does not loose strength point (playing with chess mode). OS is quite a nice way to reduce prestige consumption in the end. But based on your explanation of prestige win, I win less prestige by having OS units...

On this map, I recapture 3-4 VH, earning me some more prestige.

[monkspider]

Italian Offensive beta 1

General level
Triumph 19/20
Ending prestige 1457
No losses

I started off by buying a new Cruiser tank to replace the one I lost in the last scenario. This was a fairly easy but enjoyable tutorial mission. It does a nice job of teaching the player how to defend, retreat, and integrates air and naval units for the first time. It is pretty easy but I thought it was fine for a tutorial mission.

[maho1973]

Once again there is something strange concerning the prestige at the end of the scenario (triumph victory bonus): in colonel-level I got only 70 pp and in general-level only 105 pp
Relating to the aux light cruiser: the player should have the choice to use it as bonus in (further) naval operations or disband it for prestige.
There is much water but only the lonly aux light cruiser...

I would suggest a bomber to enter along with the CR 42 fighter. Then after the CR 42 is killed, have the second CR 42 enter the map.
With that bomber, it will entice the player to retreat sooner.

I agree with you.

[ThvN]

Once again there is something strange concerning the prestige at the end of the scenario (triumph victory bonus): in colonel-level I got only 70 pp and in general-level only 105 pp

maho1973, I reported this issue you found, and it is indeed a bug. So many thanks for pointing it out, Rudankort mentioned he has fixed it, so I assume the next beta version will behave better.

[nikivdd]

Col beta2

No remarks here... except still missing an italian 5-str tactical bomber. Replay in zip.

[Zhivago]

I replayed this scenario, and the cruiser DID count against my core, as I suspected the first time. This is a bug that needs fixing.

[Tarrak]

Replayed the scenario in Beta 2.

The enemy seems to be a bit stronger then it was before. I do not remember the exact strength of the enemy units before but they didn't even bother to attack my units while they now do it and even afflict some losses. Even the little Italian fighter managed to nag some strength points from my Spitfires. The mission is still easy and one could keep the first line forever if one wanted but it feels a lot more like an offensive you have to delay then some lambs coming for a slaughter ... tho the Italian still dies by the dozens.

[Tarrak]

I replayed this scenario, and the cruiser DID count against my core, as I suspected the first time. This is a bug that needs fixing.

I checked it again and for me auxiliary units do not count towards against my core, there is just a display bug with them. They behave like SE units did before the display change. Even if it displays your can only deploy for example 6 units of your core if you deploy the auxiliary unit from your reserve you can still deploy 6 another core units.

[Flaygor]

I thought this was a great way to teach new players how to organize a fighting withdrawal. However, the Italians seemed loathed to attack at any stage and this made things a little too simple. Maybe one less turn to get into position each time and some stronger armour or tac bombers attacking you might create a better challenge.

I did notice that one of my 25pdr units was already up to 3 stars! Seems pretty quick as usually these are one of the slower types to gain exp. No other issues, very smooth gameplay.

playing Col beta2

[monkspider]

Ìtalian Offensive beta 2
DV 20/20
Ending prestige 2197

Such a fun scenario, even if it is pretty easy. I love defensive scenarios, and this is a dyanmic and enjoyable one. My trusty anti-tank gun served me well on this one, as you will be able to see on the replay.

[okiemcguire]

4) Italian Offensive - Beta 2

Level: Colonel
Prestige Begin: 1926 After Inc/Purchases before deployment: 1173 End: 3265

Purchased Hurricane (-349)
Upgraded Vickers to Cruiser MK.IV (-271)
Strength Increases:
AT QF 2 Pounder 7 to 10 Elite (-33)
3rd Cruiser OS 10 to 11 Elite (-24)
6th Cruiser 9 to 10 Elite (-12)
Inf OS 10 to 11 Elite (-23)
A Sqd Recon 8 to 10 Elite (-12)
QF 25 pounder OS 10 to 11 (-29)

Comments: I am unsure about the posts for an additional cruiser provided(?). Was there supposed to be an aux? I did not see one.

Enjoyed the defensive withdrawal. The Italian armor handled easily by the MK.I(s). Infantry was tougher than I expected. I had good artilllery backup for my Infantry and AT. I played the game exactly as requested by the received messages. Plenty of time to reposiition to fallback positions (maybe too much time). I would be in new defensive positions for several turns before I get the messages to hold. Should the new positions occupation trigger the hold messages? I kept trying to move units onto the escape positions marked in the water. It took me a while to realize that by moving to an escape position it would dissappear ready for the next unit. A little confusing but I was able to determine it.

Recived my first hero on a MK.IV Defensive +3.

[zappel]

Beta2 - Colonel - Loss at turn 19

Hm, I think I did something wrong, but what?
I'll replay the scenario because in Beta1 I was able to win it (what a shame: I'm a looser of a tutorial mission). But for my self-esteem: I found a funny message at the end of the scenario:

Axis Surrender

AxisSurrender.png (39.89 KiB) Viewed 2891 times

The Allied-campaign ended after the message of Axis-surrender.

[holmstedt]

Level: Colonel

I miss the opportunity to buy Matilda Tank in the Italian offensive.

And if you pull out the 9 core units plus 1 or 2 aux units , instead of getting a Triumph victory.
The Axis surrender screen comes up and the campaign ends.
But if i only pull out exactly 9 units core or aux makes no difference, i get Triumph and got to the Taranto Raid.

[zappel]

And if you pull out the 9 core units plus 1 or 2 aux units , instead of getting a Triumph victory.
The Axis surrender screen comes up and the campaign ends.
But if i only pull out exactly 9 units core or aux makes no difference, i get Triumph and got to the Taranto Raid.

My problem seems to be another one, regardless if I evacuate nine or more units I get a loss. And what confuses me most: why are there evacute-hex in the sea? Is it wanted the Light Cruiser can be evacuated and engaged (or disbanded) in later scenarios?

[OxygeneIV]

Hi!

I had the same problem as zappel.
In turn 20 all 10 units were evecuated, axis surrendered and crash to the main menue.

(Colonel, beta2)