Operation Jubilee - Dieppe - Pls upgrade to 1.1

[LandMarine47]

Also what of the Panzers? I say add some Panzer IVF's and elite status considering they fought long and hard in Russia
I want to be the First Beta Tester! I'm sure me and Morge will have a fun time maybe I might win for once (He's so dang lucky!) And typhoons need to be toned down. The Typhoon we know and love arrived in 1943

[GottaLove88s]

Ok, ok, I'm considering it, lol... You'll certainly get some PzIVs, which you'll have to rush up from the rear areas... but plan on this being a mainly infantry/arty based defence...

10th Panzer Division was first formed on 1 April 1939 in Prague, as a composite unit made up of previously established units throughout Germany. Many of these units were transferred from the 20th Motorized Division, the 29th Motorized Division, and the 3rd Light Division. By fall of 1939, the division was still forming, but was nonetheless committed to the 1939 Invasion of Poland before the process was complete. For that reason, the 10th Panzer Division remained in reserve for most of that campaign. It was moved from Pomerania in August into Poland, where it was hastily given control of the 7th Panzer Regiment, the 4th Panzer Brigade and several SS units.[2]

The division completed its formation by winter of 1940. It consisted of the 10th Rifle Brigade with the 69th and 86th Rifle Regiments, the 4th Panzer Brigade with the 7th and 8th Panzer Regiments, and the 90th Artillery Regiment.[1]

Once complete, the division was sent to France to participate in the Battle of France. Committed to the XIX Motorized Corps, the 10th Panzer Division was committed to the southern axis of the fight, with the 1st and 2nd Panzer Divisions as well as Infantry Regiment Großdeutschland. It advanced through Luxembourg broke through the French lines at the Meuse River near Sedan, all the way to the English Channel in its first engagement.[3] At Sedan, the division remained briefly in reserve to protect the German bridgehead across the river from French counterattack.[4] From there, the division pushed allied forces from the ports in the Flanders region, before engaged in mopping-up operations in western areas of France after the French surrender.[5] Following this, the division engaged in occupation duty and training in France.[6]

In March 1941, the division was recalled to Germany, and moved to the border with the Soviet Union in June of that year in preparation for Operation Barbarosa. Once the operation was launched, the division fought in engagements at Minsk, Smolensk, Vyasma, and the Battle of Moscow. It remained in the region during the Russian winter offensive of 1941-1942, holding Juchnow, near Rzhev, against repeated Russian counterattacks from January to April 1942.[6] By 1942, the division had suffered massive casualties and losses, forcing it to be withdrawn to rebuild.[5]

The division was sent to Amiens, France for rehabilitation. Here, it was reorganized, eliminating the brigade headquarters because the division had been so badly mauled it no longer needed them. In 1942, the division was rushed to Dieppe, where it played a minor role in countering the Dieppe Raid by Allied forces.[6]

Once the Allies landed in North Africa, the 10th Panzer Division was placed in occupation duty in Vichy France, and rushed to the African Theater in late 1942 as soon as transport became available.[5] It landed in Tunisia and participating in the Battle of Kasserine Pass and several of the other early battles with units of the United States Army, newly committed to the war.[6] In December 1942, the division, now a part of Fifth Panzer Army, consolidated defenses around Tunis, and the battle-weary troops were able to form a line against the advancing allied forces.[7]

The division remained fighting during the early months of 1943. At that time, when the Axis line collapsed in May 1943, the division was trapped. It surrendered on May 12 and was never rebuilt.[5]

[GottaLove88s]

I want to be the First Beta Tester! I'm sure me and Morge will have a fun time maybe I might win for once (He's so dang lucky!)

Guaranteed.

And typhoons need to be toned down. The Typhoon we know and love arrived in 1943

Agreed 100%.

Btw, Al doesn't feel so lucky right now. Ask him, Jcb989, CaveHobbit or Joncorcuera about a 'lil town called Caen... Apparently it's a killin' zone...!

[LandMarine47]

Trust me when he fires his arty my i always lose something and when I fire I get nothing..... Bad Luck

[GottaLove88s]

West Dieppe is pretty much mapped out now...

From north to south, the map starts with Red and White beaches, the Promenade, Gare Maritime, seafront hotels, Tobacco Factory, Casino, and Castle on the Western Headland... The Church of St Remy lies below the castle, with a market square, then the park and central station, the inner harbour and warehouses, residential streets and a radar station (a key Allied target) in the SW corner...

[morge4]

Also 5 Boston Squadrons (I have no idea what a 'Boston' is?!), 4 Mustang Squadrons (didn't realise they were deployed that early... must be a protoype model?)

Boston was a Douglas bomber, like the A-20 Havoc
http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/BostonIII.cfm
http://www.rafbombercommand.com/aircraf ... ecial.html

Mustang was an early version of the mustang built with an Allison engine. Appeared to be very under powered before it was replaced by the Merlin
http://www.airvectors.net/avp51_1.html#m3

[morge4]

I want to be the First Beta Tester! I'm sure me and Morge will have a fun time maybe I might win for once (He's so dang lucky!)

Guaranteed.

And typhoons need to be toned down. The Typhoon we know and love arrived in 1943

Agreed 100%.

Btw, Al doesn't feel so lucky right now. Ask him, Jcb989, CaveHobbit or Joncorcuera about a 'lil town called Caen... Apparently it's a killin' zone...!

Don't remind me...

[Ranger]

Some Preliminary Dieppe Commando/Ranger Findings.

- There were no Ranger exclusive units or teams at Dieppe.
- Most of the Rangers were assigned (literally with written orders) and integrated into 3 Commando and 4 Commando in the weeks preceeding the operation.
- The Rangers assigned to 3 and 4 Commando, trained and rehearsed for their Dieppe mission as members of their host Commando units. Each Ranger was assigned a "Commando Buddy" to facilitate integration and adjustment into the Commando. These Rangers were active participants in the mission as contributing members of their host unit. In other words, they were not passive observers or guests just along for the ride.
- Some Rangers were assigned to Canadian units as "observers" and apparently participated in the main assault. They were told a day or two prior to disembarkation that they were going to a "school" for special training. None of them had any idea what they were about to get into. Most arrived at the assigned units the day of of disembarkation still with no clue. The Canadian units they were assigned to were just as surprised to see them as they were.

Commando/Ranger Weapons/Ammo/Equipment:

- A Commando Section (squad) had about 11 Commandos (8 riflemen Lee Enfield, 1 Bren Gun, 2 Thompson mgs).
- Ammo - Each Commando carried 250 rounds + of ammo for his own weapon, 6 hand grenades, 1 or 2 Bren Gun magazines, and 1 mortar round.
- Commandos had 2 inch and 3 inch mortars. I'm still trying to figure out where they were in the organization.
- The 2 inch (50.8mm) mortar had a 2 man crew. It was a small crude weapon and was probably equipped at the platoon or section level. It had an effective range of about 250 meters (I'm going to double check this). It was deployed by the Commandos as a "direct fire" Line-of-site weapon, meaning the crew had to see what or where they were shooting and that it wouldn't be directed or adjusted by a remote observer. It served the same purpose that modern M-72/M-203 (40mm) grenade launchers/rifles would in a modern infantry squad/platoon. It was described as "not particularly easy to aim", however one Commando crew was recorded as hitting a target at 250 meters with 9 out of 10 shots.
- The 3 inch (76.2mm) mortar may have been issued at either the platoon or company level. Depending on how it was deployed, it probably had a crew of 3-5. This weapon had a range of about 600 meters. Used in both a "direct fire" and "indirect fire" role. The crew could make adjustments from a forward observer via field phone. The forward observer would have had to be fairly close (they couldn't carry that much telephone wire). Envision the 3inch mortar crew deployed in a defilade position behind a hill or in a gully and the forward observer 10 - 20 meters away observing the impact on target etc.
- Each Commando company had 1 Boys Anti-Tank Rifle with a 2 man crew. No PIATs at Dieppe.
- The Rangers used their U.S. Army issued weapons. In most cases they used M-1 Garrand rifles. The Rangers assigned to 3 and 4 Commando familiarized themselves with the British weapons.
- In 3 Commando, one of the Ranger officers "secured" enough M-1 Garrand rifles to give one as a gift to most of the senior Commando officers. At least one of these Commando officers used his M-1 in the Dieppe mission. 3 Commando's 2nd IC, apparently, wished he hadn't because he had difficulty loading the weapon (apparently a weapon familiarity issue. The M1 Garrand was probably the first weapon loaded with rounds staggered stacked in a clip, where the clip actually inserts into the weapon. (The only one I can think of actually). I can imagine this confusing anyone new to the weapon who didn't have time to familiarize themselves with it. The Lee Enfield used straight stacked stripper clips. The clip was discarded after the rounds were pushed down into the magazine.)

That's all for now. More to follow.

Cheers,

Thomas

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Thomas!

Will use 3-man mortar teams (to simulate your 3-inchers)
Will swap in the Boys and swap out the PIAT (I guess should swap the Panzerbusche for the Panzershrek too?)

Sadly can't create multi-type squads with MG, rifles and brens... but am planning to go for the GJS'44 squads of 8 riflemen, so that grunt fights last longer...

Grateful for your input!

[GottaLove88s]

Also 5 Boston Squadrons (I have no idea what a 'Boston' is?!), 4 Mustang Squadrons (didn't realise they were deployed that early... must be a protoype model?)

Boston was a Douglas bomber, like the A-20 Havoc
http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/BostonIII.cfm
http://www.rafbombercommand.com/aircraf ... ecial.html

Mustang was an early version of the mustang built with an Allison engine. Appeared to be very under powered before it was replaced by the Merlin
http://www.airvectors.net/avp51_1.html#m3

Interesting Al... aahh! Had forgotten the P51 started out underpowered until they put the Spit engine into it...

[LandMarine47]

I can see a hill in the screenshot. Now I know where the Axis Arty will be and mortars in the Seafront town. What's going to happen in terms of reinforcements. The 10th Panzers and Waffen SS should arrive at a halfway point in the game. And a allied should arrive at random time throughout the game. As well as Allied armor should arrive after the main body lands. What I would do was the Spec Ops land first followed by the main body of the Canadians and light armor (Humbles Jeeps Bren Carriers[get some boys carriers!]) then the heavier armor (Churchhills M3's M5's) towards the end of the game Axis infantry and light armor should arrive and play a major role on the final victory

[LandMarine47]

Don't see much cover for the Germans at the channel.... That's may be a fatal flaw if the Germans don't find a way to defend it! I think some fortifications should be added because the Entire Port runs through there! Imagine the losses if some Rangers were to land there!

[LandMarine47]

One last thing. Didn't the landing craft have some means to defend themselves? Instead of DUKW's how about a Hybrid of Troops Carrier/Amphibious Landing Craft? Like an M3 Halftrack combined with a DUKW? After all it DOES have a 50 Cal if you observe it closely

[GottaLove88s]

One last thing. Didn't the landing craft have some means to defend themselves? Instead of DUKW's how about a Hybrid of Troops Carrier/Amphibious Landing Craft? Like an M3 Halftrack combined with a DUKW? After all it DOES have a 50 Cal if you observe it closely

You create the 3D model and animations and I'm happy to use 'em...

[LandMarine47]

iOS is limited ask Amaris or pip I'm just giving a suggestion not a command

[GottaLove88s]

No worries... I love your enthusiasm LM...

We're trying to do the best that we can without attempting the nearly impossible... Sadly, from various answers to previous forum questions, creating new 3D models for BA v1 is a total nightmare... otherwise, I'd already be trying to figure out how to add 3D carriers, battleships, cruisers, etc, yup even U-boats, for Amaris' NAM...

Hopefully this will be made easier for BA v2... Please, please Pip?!

But, yes, you make a good point on the DUKWs (or LCIs as they're going to be in Dieppe).
LCIs will have active MGs on them... as you accurately point out that they should!

[Ranger]

One last thing. Didn't the landing craft have some means to defend themselves? Instead of DUKW's how about a Hybrid of Troops Carrier/Amphibious Landing Craft? Like an M3 Halftrack combined with a DUKW? After all it DOES have a 50 Cal if you observe it closely

You create the 3D model and animations and I'm happy to use 'em...

The "LCP" type landing craft used to infil Commando 3 and 4 were not armed. The LCPs were escorted by various types of gun boats (speed boats with guns).

The LCPs used were the first batch of American made Higgins Boats that did not have ramp in the bow. They had to jump over the side.

Of course there were other, larger, types of landing craft used that would have been armed. TLCs were armed (Tank Landing Craft, later renamed Landing Craft Tank/LCT for some reason).

Cheers,

Thomas

[GottaLove88s]

Don't see much cover for the Germans at the channel.... That's may be a fatal flaw if the Germans don't find a way to defend it! I think some fortifications should be added because the Entire Port runs through there! Imagine the losses if some Rangers were to land there!

Hehe, nice spot... but you're seeing an unfinished version... Don't read too much into it...

As of now, the Outer Harbour has 5 large bunkers, 6 sandbags, 2 open bunkers, 6 watch towers... There's plenty of cover... There are four 152mm coastal guns within spitting distance of the outer wall...

Actually, the question that intrigues me is how the balance of 8 destroyers versus 8 coastal guns is going to work in practice... Any one of those can kill the other with maybe one shot... Will be fun to beta test...

[morge4]

Don't see much cover for the Germans at the channel.... That's may be a fatal flaw if the Germans don't find a way to defend it! I think some fortifications should be added because the Entire Port runs through there! Imagine the losses if some Rangers were to land there!

Hehe, nice spot... but you're seeing an unfinished version... Don't read too much into it...

As of now, the Outer Harbour has 5 large bunkers, 6 sandbags, 2 open bunkers, 6 watch towers... There's plenty of cover... There are four 152mm coastal guns within spitting distance of the outer wall...

Actually, the question that intrigues me is how the balance of 8 destroyers versus 8 coastal guns is going to work in practice... Any one of those can kill the other with maybe one shot... Will be fun to beta test...

Not to mention the 2 coastal boats for the Germans

[Ranger]

Don't see much cover for the Germans at the channel.... That's may be a fatal flaw if the Germans don't find a way to defend it! I think some fortifications should be added because the Entire Port runs through there! Imagine the losses if some Rangers were to land there!

Hehe, nice spot... but you're seeing an unfinished version... Don't read too much into it...

As of now, the Outer Harbour has 5 large bunkers, 6 sandbags, 2 open bunkers, 6 watch towers... There's plenty of cover... There are four 152mm coastal guns within spitting distance of the outer wall...

Actually, the question that intrigues me is how the balance of 8 destroyers versus 8 coastal guns is going to work in practice... Any one of those can kill the other with maybe one shot... Will be fun to beta test...

Historically, there wasn't a balance at all. The Hunter class destroyers were really "destroyers" in name only. Their armament, and fire control system was pitifully inadequate for a naval gunfire fire support roll. They only had 4 and 3.5 inch guns that could not eliminate, let alone suppress, the 152mm (6 inches) coastal guns. That's precisely why it was so important that Commandos 3 and 4 eliminated the coastal guns. Had they failed, and had the Germans been able to bring those 152mm guns to bear on the assualt force and/or destroyers, Deippe would have been a bigger blood bath than it was and it's likely that no Allied forces would have been able to withdraw and exfil at all. Those destroyers would have been at the bottom of the channel.