GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

PSP/DS/PC/MAC : WWII turn based grand strategy game

Moderators: firepowerjohan, rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core

Post Reply
Peter Stauffenberg
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Peter Stauffenberg »

In GS v2.2 you will see that the map is changed slightly in Holland, Belgium and Germany.
Liege is moved 1 hex, Antwerp is moved to a more accurate position. The Schelde river is altered too. Forests and clear hexes are altered to simulate the real terrain better. The Albert canal is added.

Because of these changes a quick conquest of Belgium can be slightly more challenging if you do a blitzkrieg. This is mainly due to the Albert Canal. If you do a sitzkrieg the changes make the invasion easier since there are more clear hexes around Brussels. So you can strike deeper into France of the first turn of Case Yellow with your panzers.

Because of the changes we have made minor changes to the OOB. E. g. one German mech in the east has swapped position with a garrison so the mech can be railed to the west on turn 1. One Dutch garrison is moved to 1x SE of Hague. This garrison is holding the Grebbe line (too weak to have any impact in this game). That means the garrison can more easily be destroyed since it's not protected by a river.

Another change is that the Allied morale loss when Brussels falls is altered so you get some morale loss if Brussels falls in 2 turns instead of 1 turn. The 1 turn loss will give the Allies a 20 morale loss. The 2 turn loss will give the Allies a 10 morale loss (half the value). So if you do a blitzkrieg and the dice are against you then you can still salvage something by taking Brussels the next turn.

Here is my Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack that takes Brussels almost every time.

Turn 1: Transfer 2 corps, 1 mech, 1 armor and entire Luftwaffe from the east.

Turn 2:

Image

This image shows the start location of the units at turn 2. The key is to get the 2 garrison units into fighting.

1. Move the garrison 2xSE of Arnhem to 1xNE of Arnhem and attack garrison in Arnhem.
2. Move corps 1x NW of Essen to 1x N of Arnhem and attack and attack garrison in Arnhem. Advance after combat.

Image

This is the situation after the first 2 attacks.

3. Move the garrison 1xN of Scholven to 1xN of Arnhem and attack garrison 1xSE of Hague.
4. The unit will often retreat to 1x S of Hague. Send strategic bomber to the garrison and finish it off with a bombardment.

Image

This is the situation after the Dutch units are dealt with. Hague is left for now. It can be dealt with in turn 3-4.

5. Use fighter 1xNW of Frankfurt to bombard Belgian garrison 1x NE of Brussels. This attack serves 2 purposes. One is
to engage the French fighter and the other is to deplete and drop efficiency on the garrison. This attack must happen
first so the English fighter can't engage.

6. Use fighter 1xSE of Cologne against Belgian corps in Brussels. This will engage the British fighter and maybe inflict
a step loss upon the Belgian corps.

7. Use tactical bomber 1xNE of Cologne to bombard the Antwerp garrison.

8. Use the tactical bomber 1xS + 1xSE of Cologne to bombard Brussels. Expect 1-2 step losses on the Brussels corps.

Image

This is the situationa after all the airstrikes.

9. Use corps 1xNW of Scholven to 1x NE of Antwerp to attack the Antwerp garrison . Do NOT advance after combat.

10. Use corps in Cologne to move to Antwerp and attack garrison 1xS of Antwerp. Do NOT advance after combat.
Remnant of garrison will almost always retreat 1xS.

11. Use corps 1xS of Cologne to 1xS of Liege and attack Belgian garrison 1x SE of Brussels. Advance after combat.

Image

This is the situation when Brussels is stripped of its defenders.

12. Move the German mech unit 2xN of Cologne to 1xNE of Brussels and attack Brussels. Expected Brussels losses is 3 steps.

13. Move the German armor unit 1xN of Cologne to 1xNW of Brussels and attack Brussels. Expected Brussels losses is 2 steps.
Advance after combat to force a Belgian surrender.

Image

This is the situation when Belgium surrenders. Notice that the 2 airstrikes on Brussels will usually inflict 2-3 steps. The
armor and mech attacks will inflict usually 5 steps, sometimes more. You only need a total of 7 hits to take Brussels.

I tried this about 10 times and failed only once. Then Brussels remained with 1 step. You fail usually if the airstrikes
fail to do any damage. That happens rarely.

Sometimes you get better than normal results so you don't need the strategic bomber to attack the Dutch garrison.
Then it can be used against the Belgian garrison 1xNE of Brussels. Then you get another fighter against Antwerp
or you can accept bomber losses and use both fighters against Antwerp and both bombers against Brussels.
Morris
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:00 am

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Morris »

Very impressive ! It is really the only way to accomplish the Bliz mission in turn 2 . But it is so complicated & depends on good combat results ! I try it on hotseat for 8 times & fail 3 of them . But even if the sucess possibility is 90% as your experience , I don't think any serious player will gamble his fate on a second turn's adventure ! since if you fail this mission , you almost lost the game as Axis !
Peter Stauffenberg
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Peter Stauffenberg »

You don't really depend on good combat results everywhere. The attacks leading up to the main attack on Brussels will usually end with success. You have air units to finish off defenders if you really get unlucky. That means your fighters will clean up unlucky land attacks and you have only 1 air attack on Brussels. Then you need to be a bit lucky with the land attacks.

When I see a failure it's usually when the air attacks on Brussels don't "bite". You need at least 2 steps from the fighter and bomber to have a fair chance. Just as important as the step losses is the amount of morale you can drop on the defender in Brussels. If you get it down to orange then the upcoming land attacks will be more damaging. The reason is that the defender will inflict less damage. In land attacks the defender shoots first and the remaining attacking steps will attack.

Anyway. I don't mind that blitzkrieg turn 2 is a bit risky. You have a good chance to pull it off if you do it well, but not guaranteed. If you fail it's not the end of the world. You can quickly overrun Brussels on the second tun of Case Yellow. Actually we've added a change in GS v2.2 so the Allies suffer 10 morale loss if Belgium falls in 2 turns instead of 1. So you can save something from a failed blitzkrieg attack.
Peter Stauffenberg
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Peter Stauffenberg »

I'm also positive that some people can find better ways to implement this attack. On expensive alternative is to rail another corps unit to the west on turn 1 and use 2 corps units against Antwerp. Then you can send the fighter against Antwerp and 2 bombers against Brussels.

Even if you don't send an extra corps unit to the west you can send 2 bombers to Brussels and 1 fighter to Antwerp. Then you need to inflict a fighter step loss so the single corps unit attacking can inflict 4 steps to finish off the Antwerp unit. With 2 bombers against Brussels you almost certainly take Brussels provided Antwerp fell. So you move the critical attack from Brussels to Antwerp.
Morris
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:00 am

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Morris »

Stauffenberg wrote: Actually we've added a change in GS v2.2 so the Allies suffer 10 morale loss if Belgium falls in 2 turns instead of 1. So you can save something from a failed blitzkrieg attack.
With this change , it is ok for me & I feel much better ! Thanks Borger ! Also thanks for your detail explaination ! What I mean is if a mission in turn 2 will has even 1 % possibility to cause the failure of the game , we will not choose it . But now ,even if we unfortunately meet the 10% bad luck , we still have hope to recover from it ! Very good ! :D
Kragdob
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 683
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:55 pm
Location: Poland

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Kragdob »

I did 20 runs and my success ration was 40% and other 40% failed by 1 or 2 steps left in Brussels. It is not unusual that your FTRs get 2:2 or even 3:3 results and hit nothing on the ground. You can use one bomber only on Brussels and it not always strikes 2 or even 1 point! Basically all your aircrafts must accomplish your mission succesfully which is 50/50 with 5 airstrikes.

+ now you have river north of Brussels which reduces attacks from the north (one of two hexes from which you attack) so you can expect 2 hits from there maximum.
Stauffenberg wrote:Then you need to inflict a fighter step loss so the single corps unit attacking can inflict 4 steps to finish off the Antwerp unit.
What if your FTR does not kill this one step? What if your infantry is 'less' successfull and kills 3 steps only? I didn't measure the chances but let's say it is 90% in each case. Then chance for both is 81% just in this case. So you have 20% chance of failure before you even start attack on Brussels. Will you take such risk on Turn 2 which means you probably loose the game?

So I am not so optimistic. Old version allowed for reserve (you could use 2 TACs attacks on Brussels, if first was successfull you had a chance to go for Holland) and now you don't have the margin at all. Blitz 1939 was probably not very historic but provided an interesting option for the game and I didn't hear complaints about that. 2.2 changes it and virtually kills the option.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Peter Stauffenberg
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Peter Stauffenberg »

Attack on turn 3 if you want an almost guaranteed chance. You have a 75% chance of fair weather. If you get mud you switch to sitz strategy.

Turn 3 means you can use the Luftwaffe in the east on turn 1
GogTheMild
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Derby, UK

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by GogTheMild »

I think that a turn 3 blitz would be the way to go. A bit of bad luck and you could fail to capture both Warsaw and Brussels in turn 2.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.
Morris
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:00 am

Re: GS v2.2: Blitzkrieg turn 2 attack

Post by Morris »

Stauffenberg wrote:Attack on turn 3 if you want an almost guaranteed chance. You have a 75% chance of fair weather. If you get mud you switch to sitz strategy.

Turn 3 means you can use the Luftwaffe in the east on turn 1
No ! even if Axis get fair in turn 3 , if 4th turn is mud ,it is also fatal . A sucess bliz need at least two fair turns to make enough progress .

BTW , If Poland campaign has bad dice , & we transfer all luftwaffe to the west , It is possible Polland will be alive until turn 3 !

So the second turn attack is necessary for a bliz ! But the 10 point morale loss after Belgium fall in the third turn maybe useful for keep the bliz option still aviliable . :)
Post Reply

Return to “MILITARY HISTORY™ Commander - Europe at War : General Discussion”