Shooting Ranks

MJT · Post by **MJT** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:21 am

I'm sure this question has already been asked ... but I've had a look through the forums and can't resolve the niggling question ...

Does it "explicitly" state in the rules which ranks of a missile armed Battlegroup can fire?

It talks about rear rank bases shooting on Pg 39 - but this is in regard to measuring range - all good.

Overhead shooting is addressed on Pg 41, where "other troops shoot only with bases in the 1st and 2nd ranks" ... That seems reasonably clear - anyone in two ranks can fire both??

But then I get to Pg 44 - SHOOTING DICE- where the only mention of a second rank contributing is for MF with bow, xbow, longbow and Cav with bow or xbow. That makes sense for those troop types - large formed bodies of missile troops firing volley fire.

I'm a little confused - but I have been playing my LF and LH can only fire a single rank in spite of Pg 41.

Could someone please confirm this is correct.

thanks
Marcus (who likes the rules and is grateful that they are 98% clear! ... or maybe its just me having a "dull" moment?)

stevoid · Post by **stevoid** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:53 am

LF and LH can fire from the front AND rear ranks when shooting forwards (LH can shoot to rear) and shoot with 1 dice per 2 bases shooting all other things being equal.

Steve

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:34 am

I don't yet have a printed copy of the rules so can't quote page numbers.

I do know that only troops in the first and second rank can shoot and that if the first rank is not shooting the second rank shoots at full effect as it is the first shooting rank.

The rules I have say:

 Chariots and artillery only shoot with their front rank. Light chariots shooting to their rear treat their rear rank as their front rank. Battle wagons only shoot with one file.
 Other troops shoot only with bases in the 1st and 2nd ranks. (The effect of shooting by 3rd rank supporting light foot archers is dealt with in impact phase combat). Light horse shooting to their rear treat their rear rank as their front rank.

So chariots and artillery can only shoot with their front rank but light chariots can shoot backwards with one rank and battlewagons are strange
Everything else can only shoot with bases in the first 2 ranks.

Does that help?

MJT · Post by **MJT** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:32 am

Steve, Hammy,
Thanks for the responses - you have confirmed what I suspected. I think the real problem is the "Shooting Dice Table" on page 44 and the same in the Beta Reference Sheet (Excel). These tables talk about 2nd ranks with MF but not LF or LH so (as far as the table is concerned) the 2nd rank is ambiguous.

I have no problem with 2 ranks shooting - makes my lights more useful now!

Marcus

Tirithon · Post by **Tirithon** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:02 am

MJT wrote:Steve, Hammy,
Thanks for the responses - you have confirmed what I suspected. I think the real problem is the "Shooting Dice Table" on page 44 and the same in the Beta Reference Sheet (Excel). These tables talk about 2nd ranks with MF but not LF or LH so (as far as the table is concerned) the 2nd rank is ambiguous.

I have no problem with 2 ranks shooting - makes my lights more useful now!

Marcus

Yep - I had a BG of Cretan LF Archers in a Village in a game last night who managed to keep disrupting by shooting a BG of Cartho HI effectively keeping them out of the action for the whole game. Everytime they would recover a level the Cretans would zap them again (my opponent obliging failing his Cohesion test every time!)

Greg

stevoid · Post by **stevoid** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:10 am

Tirithon wrote:
MJT wrote:Steve, Hammy,
Thanks for the responses - you have confirmed what I suspected. I think the real problem is the "Shooting Dice Table" on page 44 and the same in the Beta Reference Sheet (Excel). These tables talk about 2nd ranks with MF but not LF or LH so (as far as the table is concerned) the 2nd rank is ambiguous.

I have no problem with 2 ranks shooting - makes my lights more useful now!

Marcus
Yep - I had a BG of Cretan LF Archers in a Village in a game last night who managed to keep disrupting by shooting a BG of Cartho HI effectively keeping them out of the action for the whole game. Everytime they would recover a level the Cretans would zap them again (my opponent obliging failing his Cohesion test every time!)

Greg

You weren't by any chance shooting overhead from that village were you? tut tut

Steve

Tirithon · Post by **Tirithon** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:33 am

stevoid wrote:
Tirithon wrote:
MJT wrote:Steve, Hammy,
Thanks for the responses - you have confirmed what I suspected. I think the real problem is the "Shooting Dice Table" on page 44 and the same in the Beta Reference Sheet (Excel). These tables talk about 2nd ranks with MF but not LF or LH so (as far as the table is concerned) the 2nd rank is ambiguous.

I have no problem with 2 ranks shooting - makes my lights more useful now!

Marcus
Yep - I had a BG of Cretan LF Archers in a Village in a game last night who managed to keep disrupting by shooting a BG of Cartho HI effectively keeping them out of the action for the whole game. Everytime they would recover a level the Cretans would zap them again (my opponent obliging failing his Cohesion test every time!)

Greg

You weren't by any chance shooting overhead from that village were you? tut tut

Steve

Nah - just outside actually but able to pop back in when things looked dodgy! My opponent, strangely (

) didn't want to charge & end up in the Village!

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:02 am

he probably should have charged the LF still would likely lose that fight.

even losing 1 per 2 dice the LF lose the same in melee and likley are -- POA. THen numbes.

Of course the LF would evade.

Tirithon · Post by **Tirithon** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:51 pm

hazelbark wrote:he probably should have charged the LF still would likely lose that fight.

even losing 1 per 2 dice the LF lose the same in melee and likley are -- POA. THen numbes.

Of course the LF would evade.

And I of course I would have & I had reserves of Light Foot behind the village. He probably would have been better to just move away from the shooting (but it was one of those game things & it just never quite seemed to happen). Cracking game though!