Using non-standard scales in standard tournaments

zeke0023 · Post by **zeke0023** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:57 pm

I'm making the switch from Warhammer 40k due to my fanatical interest in history and my fanatical interest in not going broke. I've found that a whole bunch of vendors sell very detailed and historically accurate 20mm (1/72) scale wargaming miniatures very inexpensively.

However, 20mm is not a standard size for wargaming. I know that some people use oddly scaled armies on standard sized bases (as the base size is the only thing that really matters). So the question becomes... do I base my 20mm army on 15mm or 25mm scale bases?

Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

-Zeke

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:20 pm

Hmm, no experience, but my initial reaction is to go for 15mm as most 15mm figures are actually 18mm, so you'll be closer to the scale than 25mm (which are usually 28mm).

Is there someone locally who can provide some 15mm figures to compare?

zeke0023 · Post by **zeke0023** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:33 pm

Not really. Most of my friends are Warhammer and Warhammer 40k players... which are all the standard 28mm. Me turning to historical gaming was going rogue as far as they are concerned.

I do lean toward 15mm bases... just because then my figures will be 20% taller than my opponent. That could win me some intimidation points.

Also - I think, especially for a Roman army, that would better simulate tight ranks. I think that feeling might be lost on a 25mm scale base.

But my thoughts are all theoretical.

What's the standard troop base for DBx? 40mm x 20mm? I could just test this out.

ars_belli · Post by **ars_belli** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:22 pm

Zeke -

The "standard" 15mm base sizes for use in FoG are:

Heavy Foot - 4 figures per 40mm x 15mm base
Medium Foot - 3 or 4 figures per 40mm x 20mm base
Light Foot - 2 figures per 40mm x 20mm base
Mob - 5 to 8 figures per 40mm x 30mm base
Cataphracts - 3 or 4 figures per 40mm x 30mm base
Knights, Cavalry, Camels - 3 figures per 40mm x 30mm base
Light Horse - 2 figures per 40mm x 30mm base
Chariots, Elephants, Artillery - 1 model per 40mm x 40mm base

For my own gaming, I field Testudo figures which are "large" 15mm... more like 18mm, really. I base all of my infantry on 40mm x 300mm bases and horsemen on 40mm x 40mm ones. They appear to work just fine for FoG. However, your 20mm figs might have trouble fitting on 15mm bases!

Hope this helps!

Scott

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:08 pm

20mm figures are most commonly seen as substitutes for 25-28mm figures, and used on those bases in the UK. I;ve not seen them used instead of 15mm - although I have seen 10mm armies used on 15mm bases.

You might be able to get 1 or so more 20mm figures on a base compared to 25-8mm which would look cool. Having one less figure than your 15mm oponents on a 15mm base would not be so good...

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:08 pm

The 20mm plastics I've seen in DBM comps have been based to 25mm standards - however, as they are not as chunky as metal figures I suspect you could do either to be honest.

You could probably get an extra figure on the base to get the right look if using 25mm sizes.

Malidor · Post by **Malidor** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:45 pm

If you're just playing with friends 20mm would be okay ~ at that price you can afford to buy two armies (probably the only chance you have of getting a game of FoG out of your 40k friends). It won't make much difference which base size you choose as long as you are consistent with each army, although you'd get better value for your money by basing them for 15mm games (less figures per base).

Once you've had a few games and decide you love FoG you should consider investing in a real 15mm army for tournaments or club play (if you have one in your area). I'd guess that you wouldn't come to a 40K event with 1/72 scale figures...

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:54 pm

Definitely go for 25mm bases, an extra figure would look good for pike and spear but legionaries look fine 4 to a base.

You will struggle to get 20mm (actually they are mostly nearer 23mm) figures on 15mm bases and it will look worse than using them against 25's

If you haven't found it yet www.plasticsoldierreview.com is a superb resource for these figures.

I have (all work in progress or left over from my youth):

Egyptians, Pergamene, Imperial Roman, Gallic / British and 100YW armies all done in plastics all on or to be on 60mm bases.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:18 am

Hammy, did you spot his sig line ?

If plastics are nearer 23mm I'd go for 25mm bases then.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:36 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Hammy, did you spot his sig line ?

If plastics are nearer 23mm I'd go for 25mm bases then.

Nah, missed that ....

1/72nd troops do work best on 25mm bases anyway

zeke0023 · Post by **zeke0023** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:36 pm

When you are measuring a figure for its exact height, are you measuring from base to eyes, base to top of head, or base to top of weapon (or whatever else may be raised)?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:10 pm

zeke0023 wrote:When you are measuring a figure for its exact height, are you measuring from base to eyes, base to top of head, or base to top of weapon (or whatever else may be raised)?

It's all very subjective really. I would work on sole of foot to top of head but many don't and use foot to eye or some other measure.

What you can be sure of is that 1/72nd figures are significantly larger than 15mm metals, even big 15mm metals and that 25mm figures have now mostly grown to 28 or 30mm giants and are significantly taller and bulkier than 1/72.

zeke0023 · Post by **zeke0023** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:35 pm

I recently aquired a copy of DBMM (and by recently, I mean this morning) and it shows base scaling as being the same for 20-30mm figures. There are three different base scales: 20-30mm, 6-15mm, and 2mm.

I know I'm talking about a competing product here... but is this fairly standard way of thinking across the DBx games?
At least it seems to gel with the advise I've been given so far (including that given by you guys).

durrati · Post by **durrati** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:02 pm

I have recently built 2 armies in 1/72 plastic - a Roman and Carthagian. They fit perfectly on 25mm bases - the Triari and Hastati fill the bases well. To be honest, if anything, 20mm plastic are not to small for 25mm base size - the 28mm / 30mm figures are to big.

Which makes sense, as your 1/72 figures are closer in size to 25mm than modern so called 25mm metal figures - which are much closer to 30mm. On this basis , you could claim with some justification that the giant 30mm figures are not standard scale figures in a 25mm tournament. Be understanding though, if your opponants get there oversized incorrect scale figures out, don't moan about it - as it is only a game of toy soldiers.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:15 pm

zeke0023 wrote:I recently aquired a copy of DBMM (and by recently, I mean this morning) and it shows base scaling as being the same for 20-30mm figures. There are three different base scales: 20-30mm, 6-15mm, and 2mm.

I know I'm talking about a competing product here... but is this fairly standard way of thinking across the DBx games?
At least it seems to gel with the advise I've been given so far (including that given by you guys).

Yes, that is essentially the standard that is used for most non warhammer ancients.

The 2mm bases in DBx are not specifically mentioned for FoG but there is nothing to stop someone using smaller bases as long as both sides are based the same.

zeke0023 · Post by **zeke0023** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:51 am

Thanks for all the advice, guys.