Arc or fire and range

[kevinj]

Is V2 really this difficult? Should I stick with FoGR?

This is not a V2 thing and to be honest the same principles apply to Arc of Fire in Fog R. That said, the answer to your question is still "Yes!".

[grahambriggs]

Fantastic use of props. Well done. I particularly like the fact the photo one shows your shoes and that you've undone your belt. Perhaps photo 3 will show a 6MU stick?

I think people are getting confused here. The arc thing clearly only applies to the potential target. So it doesn't matter what else is in the vicinity. Where the other enemy are are only relevant for target priority, which is different to arc of fire.

Photo 1. The pens are in effective range but out of arc. They aren't a target.

Photo 2. The pens are at long range and in long range arc so you can shoot at them. It doesn't matter that the cold remedy is there, because it's the range/arc to the target that matters, not anyone else.

[rbodleyscott]

In the picture above the clown face beer mats are the shooting unit. The lottery tickect shows one base width to the side. The packet of coloured pens is the target and the blue biro is the 4mu stick.

Is your point that because the Pack of Pens are out of arc, they are not within effective range, so they are within arc?

You have it exactly!!!!

Bob, I will add you to the list of stark raving lunatics, along with Dave.

[titanu]

Bob, I will add you to the list of stark raving lunatics, along with Dave.

Wibble!

[pyruse]

Since when does being out of arc make something not within range?
It makes range irrelevant (because you can't shoot at stuff out of arc), which is not the same thing as being out of range.
Range is purely about distance. Nothing to do with whether you can shoot at it or not.

[titanu]

Since when does being out of arc make something not within range?
It makes range irrelevant (because you can't shoot at stuff out of arc), which is not the same thing as being out of range.
Range is purely about distance. Nothing to do with whether you can shoot at it or not.

But it is a little strange that if a target was further away then I could shoot at it.

[rbodleyscott]

Since when does being out of arc make something not within range?
It makes range irrelevant (because you can't shoot at stuff out of arc), which is not the same thing as being out of range.
Range is purely about distance. Nothing to do with whether you can shoot at it or not.

Well you have to admit that not being able to shoot at something is not very effective. Which means that if you can't shoot at something it isn't in effective range. Which (allegedly) means that you can shoot at it after all, and count as in effective range when doing so. (Or not).

And with thinking like that, it is not surprising that some people spend a lot of their game time in heated discussions.

What is more surprising is that the men in white coats haven't taken them away yet.

[hazelbark]

Which, strangely enough, is what it says in the rules.

What we are expected to read the rules? Who came up with this game.

The failure to attempt to understand is amazing.

[rbodleyscott]

I would sum up Bob's argument as follows.

"Because you can't shoot at something, you can shoot at it."

Err, no.

[pyruse]

Since when does being out of arc make something not within range?
It makes range irrelevant (because you can't shoot at stuff out of arc), which is not the same thing as being out of range.
Range is purely about distance. Nothing to do with whether you can shoot at it or not.

But it is a little strange that if a target was further away then I could shoot at it.

Not strange at all. The arc of fire is wider as you get further away.
Do you find it strange that you can't shoot at something behind you and almost touching?
A range is a distance, an arc of fire is an area. They are two completely different things.

[petedalby]

Playing Dave is clearly doing you no good at all Bob - he's messing with your head.

I can understand why it seems strange. At 5 MU you can shoot him but at 3 MU you can't. But I think the rules on the arc of fire are pretty clear.

[philqw78]

Can someone else throw something spurious in plaese? I'm enjoying watching Bob lose mental cohesion.

[ravenflight]

Can someone else throw something spurious in plaese? I'm enjoying watching Bob lose mental cohesion.

SO please you asked.

If you had the geometry right, could you have the 4 bases on the left within 4" and within arc, and the remaining bases outside of 4", but within 6" and also within arc?

How would you count THAT situation?

Being deliberately spurious as requested.

[mceochaidh]

After reading the language on pages 87 and 88 (a few times) it seems clear that the intent is to allow one extra base width to shoot in addition to a base next to a base directly opposite a target if out of effective range. It seems logical that the farther out a shooter is, the angle to shoot will increase. It is not clear to me how this rule is illustrated in the top photo on page 89. The photo shows a group of shooters at less that 4 MU, so I presume IN effective range. The BG of shooters opposite cavalry "B" has one base directly opposite this cav BG and 3 other bases NOT directly opposite. Of these three, 2 bases are allowed to shoot. Since the shooters ARE in effective range, it would seem that only one base in addition to the shooting base opposite should be able to shoot, per the second bullet point on page 88 - 1 base width otherwise.

Am I looking at the picture correctly?

[petedalby]

Am I looking at the picture correctly?

Yes you are - and well spotted. The picture used to be on Page 83 in V1. This from the V1 errata:

P.83 Top Diagram
This diagram is correct, but it is worth pointing out that a small part of the target battle group is directly in
front of part of the base of the 2nd file from the left of the right hand battle group of archers. Hence the 3rd file
is just within arc of fire at effective range.

Hope that helps.

[quackstheking]

Until the b*ll*cks about a BG to the rear was raised.

Yes - I'm struggling to understand how this would change anything?

Is V2 really this difficult? Should I stick with FoGR?

Pete,

We would love to welcome you back to FOGR!

Don

[petedalby]

Pete,

We would love to welcome you back to FOGR!

Don

That is most kind Don. I am getting the hang of V2 now though.