Undo function

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:05 pm

I am aware that this has been discussed a long time ago but still could we please have a function that allows to undo movement when the following conditions are met:

-there was no combat
and either
-FOG is off
or
-not a single hex in FOG has been "discovered".

If that still leaves some doubts as to whether it can abused or not the undo can be disabled for naval units altogether.

Even in such a limited form it would be very useful IMO.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:24 am

This still leaves the issue of players trying to find subs by trial and error.

We decided we did not want the feature so never made any allowmances for it. Even if you could convince us it was a good idea there is no guarantee it woudl fit in to the system.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:36 am

iainmcneil wrote:This still leaves the issue of players trying to find subs by trial and error.

That's why I said the undo could be disabled for naval movement. In the manner described it would leave no room for exploits while allowing at least from time to time to avoid accidental blunder... So no disadvantages for the fairness of the system and greater ease of use.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:20 am

Ok missed that - you'll have to convince Johan though as I know he was never a big fan of the idea

Ryben · Post by **Ryben** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:06 pm

what´s worse?

a) discovering a sub by accident?

b) moving your tank unit by error into a position where it will be surrounded, destroyed on next turn because it´s out of supply, and crumbling the whole Moscow front?

I think the best option is to leave us to decide. Just put that Undo there but allow checking it as an option (like FOW or Oil consumption). Everybody wins!

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:12 pm

Ryben wrote:what´s worse?
I think the best option is to leave us to decide. Just put that Undo there but allow checking it as an option (like FOW or Oil consumption). Everybody wins!

That would be a perfect solution - 3 options: no undo, partial undo (like in the first post), full undo. And all those nice empty check-boxes on the options screens would be put to a good use.

Maj_Battaglia · Post by **Maj_Battaglia** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:15 pm

Just so Borsook is not alone in lobbying for this feature, I agree that it would be a useful function. There are times, say when I should probably be sleeping, that I might mean to deselect a unit but click the wrong button or a hex within the move radius and suddenly my fighter is in Denmark for an unscheduled 20-day R&R.

KarlXII · Post by **KarlXII** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:23 pm

I agree with the undo suggestion as well. Make it an option when starting the game.

fundin · Post by **fundin** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:24 pm

It's a good idea. Many a time i've moved a unit by mistake when i was meant to be checking terrain.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:56 am

I was one of the early beta-testers for CEAW, I argued passionately against the Undo function, and I've seen nothing since to change my mind.

It's just too prone to abuse, and Undo exploits can kill a game for multiplayer.

I hear what you're saying, but my best suggestion is still to save at the beginning of each turn, and save again several times during the turn, at points where you're satisfied with what you've done.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:03 am

possum wrote:I was one of the early beta-testers for CEAW, I argued passionately against the Undo function, and I've seen nothing since to change my mind.

It's just too prone to abuse, and Undo exploits can kill a game for multiplayer.

I hear what you're saying, but my best suggestion is still to save at the beginning of each turn, and save again several times during the turn, at points where you're satisfied with what you've done.

Please name one (1) way of abusing an undo function that is disabled for units that clear => 1 hex of FOG, all naval units and all combat.

Actually your suggestion to save multiple times during the turn is the easy to abuse technique, as it allows you to "re-roll" combat and look for subs. And it can destroy multiplayer too, as it seems most MP games in CEAW are done by PBEM.

Happycat · Post by **Happycat** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:47 pm

I like Ryben's idea of having the feature as a selectable option. That way, if you are playing someone you simply can't trust (and one has to ask---why WOULD you want to play this person anyway?), you can just leave the feature off.

If someone wants to cheat when looking for submarines, I am sure they will do it anyway even without the "undo". All they have to do is try searching a sector, and if that doesn't work, quit and reload and try again in another sector. The entire fog of war feature can be largely defeated that way (I must have a devious mind). For example, if you want to see what is behind the enemy front lines, just fly some strat bombers right up to the border and have a good look. Then quit and reload. And then, go give your head a shake

I wonder if I am the only player to be mildly offended by the idea that the developers seem to think they need to police the ethics of gamers. When I play someone PBEM, I can tell quite quickly if I'm being fleeced or not. Happily, over the years, the occasions when I have felt some misgivings about my opponent are few and far between (like about twice in 17 or 18 years).

So I would say this to the developers, and with all due respect---if you don't want to do the feature, just say so and be done with it. But please don't continue to tell us that it is something "for our own good".