Morris Axis vs Kragdob Allies

[Kragdob]

Italian MECH defending Paris? Really? O_o A bit risky, don't you think?

Italians are not able to defend anything my bombers score 2-3 steps per hit.

They are just something I have to put in Paris & lose it without any bad feelings . Anyway , even if I put a Manstein Mech in it , they will also take by several Tac's hits ! Fight without airsuperior is really a suffer !

Yes, Allies have iron air cover and it is growing every turn.

[Morris]

Sept 25th 1942 fair


more preparation for the severe winter .


In France , Allies close to Paris .

[Morris]

Oct 15th 1942 fair


In Russia , we retreat back to defence position but still not safe enough .











In France , we lost Paris . we retreat behind the river & try hide our troops in forest .

[Morris]

The present problem is that : we can hold the east defence line with present troops , but how about west ? If we use the present west groups ( most Italians) to defence the west , maybe Allies will arrive Humburg at the first fair turn in 1943 . but if I transfer some units from east , I am not sure whether the rest of them can hold the line in severe winter infront of the Russian steamroller ! What a dilemma !

[Cybvep]

How about a general withdrawal in the East to more defensible positions? I'm actually surprised that you are still bogged down so deep in Russia. Due to weather, it may be too late to withdraw... Anyway, IMO ignoring the Allies in the West is a mistake. Maybe it's part of Morris' secret strategy - he is an elite player, after all - but it's dangerous to allow the Allies to gain so much territory so early on. It's also not good for PPs - loss of Paris alone is ~6-7 PP (10/2 * war effort), which is the equivalent of losing several 1 PP Russian cities. Note that 'm not even including the loss of 1 rail cap here. You don't control Moscow or Leningrad, so you don't have much to lose by withdrawing in Russia.

[richardsd]

I although Morris has lost some heavy units, I am thinking a few are missing

I would guess an attempt at a crushing summer attack in the west by the Axis

[joerock22]

I although Morris has lost some heavy units, I am thinking a few are missing

I would guess an attempt at a crushing summer attack in the west by the Axis

That is a nice strategy. You can make a huge attack in February-April, crush the Allies, and then get the bulk of your heavy/air units back to the east by June or July. You have to pay for some extra rail and probably give some ground in Russia, but it definitely works if executed correctly.

[Morris]

I although Morris has lost some heavy units, I am thinking a few are missing

I would guess an attempt at a crushing summer attack in the west by the Axis

That is a nice strategy. You can make a huge attack in February-April, crush the Allies, and then get the bulk of your heavy/air units back to the east by June or July. You have to pay for some extra rail and probably give some ground in Russia, but it definitely works if executed correctly.

Yes , it is really a nice strategy , but difficult to execute . Anyway it seems no other better choice . So we have to try it no matter how difficult it will be ! It will make the game amazing but won't be able to change the result -----Axis's failure .

[Kragdob]

The problem is that if Allies have 20+ bombers in 1943 then central France is becoming really nice place to use them against armor and mechs in clear terrain.

[Morris]

The problem is that if Allies have 20+ bombers in 1943 then central France is becoming really nice place to use them against armor and mechs in clear terrain.

Totally agree ! The Axis suffer it in 1943 in this game(sometimes even in 1942) as they had suffered in the summer of 1944 in real history .

[Morris]

Nov 14th 1942 winter


The Red army launched their attack from Caucasus to Moscow . We decide to retreat , but it seems we will lose 50% of our east troops . We will try to sacrify some corps to save our elites troops .

In France , Allies move forward to Belgium . where will they stop in winter ?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Maybe it's time to get into the "think-box" and make a completely new strategy as the Axis? It seems you're using variations of the same version, i. e. a very strong Barbarossa with a deep push towards Rostov and beyond in 1941.

Maybe you should try to use a different variation where you build quite a bit of subs (making a sub blob) going after convoys and Allied escorts. Then you get a pretty strong, but not very strong, Barbarossa trying to get to the historical line in 1941. Then in 1942 you select ONE major target (Leningrad, Moscow or the south) and just go for easy kills to make sure the Russians just have enough PP's to replace lost units.

You don't have to run after the Russians in the south, thus widening your front line. That plays into his hands. In this game the Russians remained near Moscow so you could have used the Luftwaffe to soften up targets in the forest and used corps / mech units to kill 4-6 units per turn. That's enough to keep the Russians down in 1942.

When I play the Axis I focus on keeping a pretty short front line so I can go to a double defense line in 1he winter. Then I can withdraw in a coherent way when the offensive begins. Your armor units can be then used in the rear to punish Russian breakthroughs.

This game seems lost, but I think it's more to the Axis strategy than the general game balance. E. g. you lost several Axis naval units early in the game. Those PP's could have been better spent on subs going after convoys or escorts. More surface ships for the Axis is necessary primarily if you want to do Sealion.

If you put less emphasis on Russia you could e. g. try to get to Port Said to keep Italy longer in the war. Once you have the river lines there you can stay on defense or push into Iraq. There are many opportunities.

When I play the Axis I don't play to crush my opponent in the game. I know that is impossible against a skilled opponent. Instead I want to use my temporary superiority to go for easy kills. It doesn't matter where they are as long as I keep the kills going. Bleeding Russia is necessary, but it must not be at the expense of forgetting to bleed the western Allies.

You lose the game if you don't balance out the effort between west, Med and east.

I think GS v2.2 will be very interesting to you since you get new tools as the Axis to make strategies. Sub warfare will become more important. Taking Port Said will have an impact on Italian morale and production. Taking Athens will also boost Italian morale etc. So there are new ways now to find effective ways to keep your opponent down for long enough to hold to the end.

The Allies have completely different strategy than the Axis early in the game. They need to back down from battle areas where they will lose against the Axis for sure and instead try to harass the Axis where they are weak. The key is to ensure you inflict at least as much damage on the enemy as you get yourself. War of attrition is the way the Allies get the upper hand eventually. Then Germans keep the initiative by avoiding being dragged into a war of attrition so they can inflict lots of damage where they are strong.

[Morris]

Maybe it's time to get into the "think-box" and make a completely new strategy as the Axis? It seems you're using variations of the same version, i. e. a very strong Barbarossa with a deep push towards Rostov and beyond in 1941.

Maybe you should try to use a different variation where you build quite a bit of subs (making a sub blob) going after convoys and Allied escorts. Then you get a pretty strong, but not very strong, Barbarossa trying to get to the historical line in 1941. Then in 1942 you select ONE major target (Leningrad, Moscow or the south) and just go for easy kills to make sure the Russians just have enough PP's to replace lost units.

You don't have to run after the Russians in the south, thus widening your front line. That plays into his hands. In this game the Russians remained near Moscow so you could have used the Luftwaffe to soften up targets in the forest and used corps / mech units to kill 4-6 units per turn. That's enough to keep the Russians down in 1942.

When I play the Axis I focus on keeping a pretty short front line so I can go to a double defense line in 1he winter. Then I can withdraw in a coherent way when the offensive begins. Your armor units can be then used in the rear to punish Russian breakthroughs.

This game seems lost, but I think it's more to the Axis strategy than the general game balance. E. g. you lost several Axis naval units early in the game. Those PP's could have been better spent on subs going after convoys or escorts. More surface ships for the Axis is necessary primarily if you want to do Sealion.

If you put less emphasis on Russia you could e. g. try to get to Port Said to keep Italy longer in the war. Once you have the river lines there you can stay on defense or push into Iraq. There are many opportunities.

When I play the Axis I don't play to crush my opponent in the game. I know that is impossible against a skilled opponent. Instead I want to use my temporary superiority to go for easy kills. It doesn't matter where they are as long as I keep the kills going. Bleeding Russia is necessary, but it must not be at the expense of forgetting to bleed the western Allies.

You lose the game if you don't balance out the effort between west, Med and east.

I think GS v2.2 will be very interesting to you since you get new tools as the Axis to make strategies. Sub warfare will become more important. Taking Port Said will have an impact on Italian morale and production. Taking Athens will also boost Italian morale etc. So there are new ways now to find effective ways to keep your opponent down for long enough to hold to the end.

The Allies have completely different strategy than the Axis early in the game. They need to back down from battle areas where they will lose against the Axis for sure and instead try to harass the Axis where they are weak. The key is to ensure you inflict at least as much damage on the enemy as you get yourself. War of attrition is the way the Allies get the upper hand eventually. Then Germans keep the initiative by avoiding being dragged into a war of attrition so they can inflict lots of damage where they are strong.

Very impressive lesson ! Thanks Borger ! But there are still several points I want to talk about :
1 I admit that I made several mistakes , but it is almost impossible to play a 100 turn game without a mistake . Maybe you or Joe can , but I can't .
2 I finish France campaign in Nov 1939 , so the lost of the navy is just the benifit I got from this . It just balance & back to normal . Actually the France campaign usually finish around Apr or Mar by Bliz & June or July by Sitz .
3 If I did not beat Russians so hard , the Russian will be much stronger than the present Red Army although it is already very powerful now ! Also I won't get enough space to exchange for the time when I want to retreat .
4 Have you ever tried your strategy with a well experienced allies player ? maybe they won't give you a minute to take a breath in the first severe winter .

However , the new change of subs will change the balance , We are looking forward to it & do hope it will accomplish this mision !

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I've tried my Axis strategy against several great Axis players like Rkr1958, Joerock and Richardsd. Neither of them have been able to do much in their 1941 Russian winter offensive against me. I lost some units, but actually held the line.

Joerock is patient and waits for the right moment to attack. So when he strikes then you need to worry. With careful Axis play you can delay the Russian offensive until 1943. Then he will grind you down. Such an attack is actually worse for the Axis player to deal with than Russians who attack fiercely every year. I've played with Allied players who attacked hard in 1941, but in the process lost several armor and mech units, thus making 1942 so much easier for the Axis.

As the Axis you know that the Russians can't be strong everywhere in the 1941 winter offensive. You just back down a little where the mechs and armor units show up and hold the rest of the line. To do this you need to dig-in as the Axis quite early in 1941 so you regain to 80-90 efficiency BEFORE the severe winter hits. Then your units can perform pretty well even through the winter. You also need a general who can boost the efficiency for the rear air unit so you can strike them even in the winter. I have good success as the Axis with sending my tactical bombers against the Russian mech and armor before they reach my main line. OK, I don't inflict a lot of hits, but the units lose quite a bit of efficiency from the airstrikes. That means they can't attack as hard if they attack. So often the Allied player will have to waste a turn to repair the unit instead. By harassing their best units you can limit the devastation of the winter offensive. The downside is that you burn a lot of extra oil so you need to conserve oil from turn 1 to have enough to do these strikes.

[Morris]

I've tried my Axis strategy against several great Axis players like Rkr1958, Joerock and Richardsd. Neither of them have been able to do much in their 1941 Russian winter offensive against me. I lost some units, but actually held the line.

Joerock is patient and waits for the right moment to attack. So when he strikes then you need to worry. With careful Axis play you can delay the Russian offensive until 1943. Then he will grind you down. Such an attack is actually worse for the Axis player to deal with than Russians who attack fiercely every year. I've played with Allied players who attacked hard in 1941, but in the process lost several armor and mech units, thus making 1942 so much easier for the Axis.

As the Axis you know that the Russians can't be strong everywhere in the 1941 winter offensive. You just back down a little where the mechs and armor units show up and hold the rest of the line. To do this you need to dig-in as the Axis quite early in 1941 so you regain to 80-90 efficiency BEFORE the severe winter hits. Then your units can perform pretty well even through the winter. You also need a general who can boost the efficiency for the rear air unit so you can strike them even in the winter. I have good success as the Axis with sending my tactical bombers against the Russian mech and armor before they reach my main line. OK, I don't inflict a lot of hits, but the units lose quite a bit of efficiency from the airstrikes. That means they can't attack as hard if they attack. So often the Allied player will have to waste a turn to repair the unit instead. By harassing their best units you can limit the devastation of the winter offensive. The downside is that you burn a lot of extra oil so you need to conserve oil from turn 1 to have enough to do these strikes.

yes , an experienced Axis player should be able to hold the line in 1941's severe winter if you stay at Smolosk-Kiev- Dnipropetrovsk. but without take Karkov ,Stalino, Rostov , Tula ,Stalingrad,Kursk ,Voronezh ,it is a big difference of pps . there are 3+2+2+1+5+1=14 . the USSR's war effect is 130% , 14*1.3=18.2 pp . From Axis stop in Sept 30th 1941 , there are 8 months until next fair turn in 1942( suppose in May ). 8 month is 240 days ,12turns . 18.2*12=218pp on the Axis side they lose 218/3=72pp . 218+72=290pp . it means 3more tank or 3more FTR , plus the Siberian reinforcement, it will be a huge red army in 1942 . Axis can do few progress in front of this ( kill 10-15 corps , 2-4 mech ,2 tanks won't hurt USSR at all ) , after this it will be Steamroller's revenge in the second severewinter which already has a big airforce to support their attack . it will be hard to stop . So if Joe start to attack in 1943 , what a massive Red army he has ! Of course he will grind you down ! No surprise at all !

[Morris]

oh , I forgot to plus Donbass & Maganess . 2*1.3*12= 31 + 31/3=41 pp
So the total difference should be 290+41=331 pp ! Almost 4 tanks !

[Morris]

Nov 1942----Dec 1942 winter /severe winter

During this period , we retreat our troops back to west as many as possible . Anyway , we lost almost 12 corps during the retreat . It is a big lose . But we have to pay !
Fortunately , most of our high value mech & arm are safe . Since nothing interesting during these turns , so no screenshots . Screenshot will come in 1943 !


In France , Allies still move forward even in winter . This is the first time I hope for mud weather to delay their steps .

[Morris]

Jan 22nd 1943 winter/sevre winter



the retreat from Russia continue , & Allies has moved into Belgium by super airsupport even in winter .

[Cybvep]

Your frontline in the Eastern Front looks pitifully weak. I think that there is a good chance that it will be overwhelmed in the next 2 turns. I still think that you were too aggressive in the East. Your position was strong in 1940-1941, but now it looks like you have no chance to win, because the Allied player is advancing both in the West and in the East in early 1943! Your only chance is to score a decisive victory somewhere - maybe Kragdob will suffer from victory disease and expose his units.

[Morris]

Your frontline in the Eastern Front looks pitifully weak. I think that there is a good chance that it will be overwhelmed in the next 2 turns. I still think that you were too aggressive in the East. Your position was strong in 1940-1941, but now it looks like you have no chance to win, because the Allied player is advancing both in the West and in the East in early 1943! Your only chance is to score a decisive victory somewhere - maybe Kragdob will suffer from victory disease and expose his units.

i have just explained why I play so aggressive in Russia . That's why I think the Axis is hopeless . What I can do is just to do sth to delay the Axis's failure .