Timing of Events

[kal5056]

This occured in a game last week.

In the Melle Phase a BG broke and a Friendly BG Disruted from seeing the Break
Then in the initial Pursuit phase I simlutaneously caught the Router and struck the front corner of the Disrupted Friendly.

I then Killed the General with the router causing the Freiendly BG to Fragment.

Now in the next Impact Phase we have to Fight this Impact.

Does this BG test for being charges while fragmented? It was actually Disrupted when I made contact.

Gino
SMAC

[philqw78]

Did you not just answer your own question.

[dave_r]

A unit that has seen a bg break does not test to see a general die in the same phase

[philqw78]

Shouldn't that be does not test again Dave.

[batesmotel]

Looking at the detailed sequence of play, it appears that there should be a separate test for seeing the commander killed after the initial pursuit in the melee phase. Only testing for BGs broken in melee and commanders killed in melee would be combined in a single test with the additional -1 modifier.

So the target of the pursuit impact should test for being fragmented when charged.

Chris

[philqw78]

See p122 Chris, only test once.

Also the BG was not fragmented when charged (tho it should not have had the second test)

[batesmotel]

See p122 Chris, only test once.

Also the BG was not fragmented when charged (tho it should not have had the second test)

P. 122 says:

"If pursuits result in the loss of a commander , battle groups that have already tested at the end of this phase for breaks/lost commanders do not have to test again."

There are two different places listed in the Melee phase detailed sequence of play, after melee resolution (fourth sub-phase) and after the fifth and final sub-phase. I still don't see why there would not be a separate test for the BG at the end of the melee phase after pursuits if a commander was killed in that pursuit even if the BG had tested previously during (not at the end of) the melee phase in the fourth sub-phase for seeing the BG break (without the commander being killed) earlier in that melee phase. I do agree that they would have only taken one test if the BG had seen the general killed in melee and the BG had broken during melee resolution in that melee phase. You're reading of the rule may well be the author's intent but in that case the text on P. 122 would have been much clearer if it said "battle groups that have already tested during this phase..." since some of the tests do occur before the actual end of the phase as listed in the detailed sequence of play.

Chris

[philqw78]

I wholeheartedly agree Chris, it needed tightening up and was missed

[rbodleyscott]

All tests for seeing friends break or commanders lost (other than those for seeing FRAGMENTED friends break as a result of being charged) are "at the end of the current phase" - See P. 120 (15-1).

The detailed sequence of play merely subdivides the sequence of events that can occur "at the end of the current phase".

Phil is correct.

[philqw78]

Phil is correct.

can I frame this?

[timmy1]

Only if you include that dave_r was also right...

[zoltan]

All tests for seeing friends break or commanders lost (other than those for seeing FRAGMENTED friends break as a result of being charged) are "at the end of the current phase" - See P. 120 (15-1).

The detailed sequence of play merely subdivides the sequence of events that can occur "at the end of the current phase".

Phil is correct.

So within each phase, each BG may make a maximum of one cohesion test. All cohesion tests are done at the end of the phase. Each cohesion test may include a maximum of one minus one on the dice roll for multiple reasons to test, regardless of how many multiple reasons exist in that phase foe the BG making the test?

[batesmotel]

In the combat phases (melee and and impact) the test for losing combat is separate from testing for a rout or loss of commander so a BG can take 2 tests.

Chris

[rbodleyscott]

All tests for seeing friends break or commanders lost (other than those for seeing FRAGMENTED friends break as a result of being charged) are "at the end of the current phase" - See P. 120 (15-1).

The detailed sequence of play merely subdivides the sequence of events that can occur "at the end of the current phase".

Phil is correct.

So within each phase, each BG may make a maximum of one cohesion test. All cohesion tests are done at the end of the phase.

Er, no.

What Chris said.

[berthier]

Basically you follow the full turn sequence as RBS and company have said over and over and over.

[hazelbark]

The other part is to be wary when someone excerpts a specific rule reference and extrapolates it without care.

[berthier]

The other part is to be wary when someone excerpts a specific rule reference and extrapolates it without care.

As if that would ever happen on this forum...

[timmy1]

So many rules questions are eliminated by rigidly following the SoP, step by step.

[philqw78]

The other part is to be wary when someone excerpts a specific rule reference and extrapolates it without care.

No sorry, do it again, Eeenglish

[batesmotel]

Basically you follow the full turn sequence as RBS and company have said over and over and over.

But you must also remember that things shown as separate steps in the full sequence can occur simultaneously, e.g. at the 'end' of the turn. It was following the sequence of play as a 'sequence' that led me to a different interpretation from Phil. I made the incorrect interpretation that only the final step in the melee phase was the one at the 'end' of the phase.

Chris