First Viewing - Rules

jdm · Post by **jdm** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:26 pm

I know a number of you saw the press release version of the Rules at the week end, being bandied around by one of the press corps recipients.

So what did you think?

As ever your feed back is important to us. The more detailed your observation the better

Regards
JDM

andy63 · Post by **andy63** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:50 pm

Excellent the quality is second to none,i just cant wait till they are out.
I have heard people comment on the £25 retail price as being expensive, believe me they are worth it when you consider paying £12ish for DBMM.
If you shop round you can pick FOG up at around £16.50 which is excellent value

Andy.

list_lurker · Post by **list_lurker** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:41 am

I wholeheartly agree. The production values are great - and people will buy the book on looks alone, even if they don't play the game

. This raises the bar. While not wishing the draw comparions I'm confident it will be like the FoW phenomena, which if if my personal experience is typical, is the first game I've seen - ever - that gamers under the age of 16 actually look exicted about

As for cost - sure, its more than traditional rule sets. But I often wonder whether the wargamers who say this exctually live in this century

, and buy DVDs, CDs, Magazines, shoes, clothes etc etc - or shop at Age Concern and still play with Mike Models? When next at a wargames show I'd take a look around the car park and take complaints with a pinch of salt!

thanks

Simon

list_lurker · Post by **list_lurker** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:00 am

One comment I'd have is that its going to take a loonnggg time before all the books are out (not just talking about the 1st release)... If I want to use my biblicals or dark ages - it going to be at least 1 year. What are the chances of making the lists public domain in some way shape or form before the release? I appreciate the marketing aspect of it - but I don't like to see it turn a bit FOW. Ie milking every month/mile of Normandy with a book/model release!!

There's a fine line between keeping everyone on tenterhooks, and getting bored waiting! (marketing backlash)

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:05 am

It's not really a marketing issue - it takes a vast amount of work to create the army list books and the team have been in full production mode for over a year to get the books ready that we have, and are still working hard on the upcoming books. There has not been a break.

Everything that is ready is being released at laucnch and the only reason there are not more available is that they are not ready yet.

Once the lists have been agreed starts the long process of formatting teh tables, flowing the text, finding supporting artwork, proof reading, print tests, more proof reading etc. etc.

ars_belli · Post by **ars_belli** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:59 pm

list_lurker wrote:As for cost - sure, its more than traditional rule sets. But I often wonder whether the wargamers who say this exctually live in this century , and buy DVDs, CDs, Magazines, shoes, clothes etc etc - or shop at Age Concern and still play with Mike Models? When next at a wargames show I'd take a look around the car park and take complaints with a pinch of salt!

Exactly! There is a small but highly vocal contingent of wargamers who seem to prefer the "good old days" of cheaply produced rule sets (and presumably slide rules, eight-track players, black-and-white televisions, etc.). IMHO one is unlikely to win over many of these nostalgia buffs, so it is a much better strategy to appeal to the majority of today's gamers (and potential new gamers), who actually enjoy high quality, well-produced rules written in readable prose.

Cheers,
Scott

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:27 pm

I do think that after the first wave of releases, it would be good to have some popular temporary lists posted on the FoG site until that book comes out. I don't mean every conceivable list, but a few key ones.

Otherwise people will just grow their own or wander off.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:56 pm

hazelbark wrote:I do think that after the first wave of releases, it would be good to have some popular temporary lists posted on the FoG site until that book comes out. I don't mean every conceivable list, but a few key ones.

Otherwise people will just grow their own or wander off.

Good idea. Testers, of a sort, to keep the FoG fiend's jones going. Perhaps one list from an upcoming book could be posted (or better still a matched set of opponents) just to keep the masses interested until the book is published. The real book would have the full army list with all the wargamer porn and the detailed write-up. Everyone would buy it in order to get that content (and the rest of the army lists, natch) and would--in the mean time--have their addiction stoked.

Marc

malekithau · Post by **malekithau** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:01 am

Just picked my copy up. I love the rules, very well presented - much better then WAB. 2 concerns - no cheat sheets and I reckon it's about 20% too expensive at Osprey prices. Otherwise excellent.

malekithau · Post by **malekithau** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:00 am

Oh one other thing - the decision to use photos of only 28mm figs will lead many to believe the rules are aimed at them alone and give credence to the ridiculous opinions on TMP. I understand that they were probably used because they look better in photos then 15mm but still was a bit dismayed that there are no 15mm figs in evidence.

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:27 pm

... or because Slitherine has just announced a partnership w/ a 28mm manufacturer???

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:12 pm

malekithau wrote:
... I reckon it's about 20% too expensive at Osprey prices. Otherwise excellent.

You're taking the piss - at full price its good value for money.

malekithau wrote:
I understand that they were probably used because they look better in photos then 15mm but still was a bit dismayed that there are no 15mm figs in evidence.

So they should have made the rules look less good?

pcelella · Post by **pcelella** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:47 pm

How are you guys getting your grubby little hands on the book already?

Mine is pre-ordered, but the UK release isn't until 2/11 and the USA one until 2/19. What's up?

BTW - since mine is pre-ordered, but I live in the USA, when will my copy ship? The 2/11 date or the 2/19 one?

Just anxious to get my shiny new toys.

Peter C

davem · Post by **davem** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:53 pm

pcelella wrote:How are you guys getting your grubby little hands on the book already?

Mine is pre-ordered, but the UK release isn't until 2/11 and the USA one until 2/19. What's up?

BTW - since mine is pre-ordered, but I live in the USA, when will my copy ship? The 2/11 date or the 2/19 one?

Just anxious to get my shiny new toys.

Peter C

I've just seen on the Ozzie DBM list that copies are being sold in a high street bookshop in Melbourne. I think the OP is an Aussie, that would explain his description. We in the UK are still awaiting release....

Dave M

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:21 pm

The books are printed and presumably being shipped to various countries. I believe that the Australian early sales are possibly against the request of Osprey to try to release at or about the same time. It isn't just Harry Potter that gets people exited.

malekithau · Post by **malekithau** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:13 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
You're taking the piss - at full price its good value for money.

So they should have made the rules look less good?

Actually I'm serious - I have no problems paying for rulebooks but in this case I think it's just that bit too expensive. If I hadn't playtested the rules I would've been reluctant to part with the hardearned for book of this size. Make of it what you will but I'm sure others will look at it the same.

No, of course not Nik but it would've been nice to see 15mm figs represented especially as that is what the majority of us will play with and IMHO the best scale to use the rules. I still don't think the ranges etc work well with 28mm. It would've been nice to see the figs in the photos actually all based for FOG too, not WAB.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:34 am

OK, so each of us has their own view of value for money, however, given the cost of the rules compared to the cost of armies, etc. and that you use the rules every game and, assuming you have multiple armies like most gamers, you don't do that with each army I really don't understand how these rules can be said to be too expensive

For example I spend about 80UKP on the unpainted lead for my last 15mm army and will spend well over 200UKP on the unpainted lead for my planned 28mm army so the rule book, even if bought at full recommended price of 25UKP, is a minor cost - the bases for the two armies will come to more than that

Malidor · Post by **Malidor** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:28 am

You got it right when you said

each of us has their own view of value for money

and this is particularly appropriate for our hobby.

For some of us the cost of rulebooks and army lists is a significant consideration when looking at a new game, particularly those of us on limited gaming budgets. I remember when people use to moan about AB costing 20c per figure more than their competitors, for some people that's a legitimate concern, for others it's irrelevant.

To be fair the high production values and good game design of FoG become the justification of what may be considered by some to be a high pricetag. You may groan about the price but ultimately; if you want it you'll buy it - even if you can't afford it!

"Free for those that can afford it, very expensive for those that cannot." ~ Withnail

MaxBer · Post by **MaxBer** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:50 pm

Just received the books today.....really amazing graphics!

Really a good work!

miffedofreading · Post by **miffedofreading** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:27 pm

Got the books, I think the price is reasonable, just needs some proper quick reference sheets.

Quality of printing is excellent
Quality of drawn artwork is of course brilliant as it is Osprey
Pics of 25mm wargames figures are I think excellent

Overall presentation etc is at least 9/10

No real reason why a single double sided laminatable quick reference sheet can't be drawn up that covers most of the details???

Have not read all the rules yet so difficult to comment, like what I have read so far

Andy