Conformation Problem

[titanu]

My troops are facing up the picture – two wide three deep light bases just caught by the elephants. The dark based unit beside them is also mine. His troops facing them very closely but NOT touching them are in front.
After the impact the elephants cannot conform as his infantry cannot SLIDE across because my elephants are beside them. So the elephants stay in place.
It was NOT a flank attack.


Now the troops to the front have bolstered and now charge in (both units). We fight an impact with all my front rank bases. I still cannot see anything wrong yet.
But now comes the problem. What happens now? I still cannot see how any confirmation can take place as far as the elephants are concerned.
So who fights in the next melee round?
No elephant combat at all?
4 elephant dice v my 1 dice for my back rank in contact?

[Cynical]

I don’t have my book with me but I thought that if he could not conform to you at the start of his movement phase, you would conform to him, if possible, at the start of your next movement phase. So your lighter based unit would not be in that location to receive the charge.

This is how I’ve been doing it under V1 rules, I have no knowledge of V2.

[titanu]

I don’t have my book with me but I thought that if he could not conform to you at the start of his movement phase, you would conform to him, if possible, at the start of your next movement phase. So your lighter based unit would not be in that location to receive the charge.
This is how I’ve been doing it under V1 rules, I have no knowledge of V2.

It is not easy to see from this angle but there was not room to do this as the dark bases are in the way and again cannot 'shift SIDEWAYS' to make room.

[Scruff]

If he can not conform to you, you will conform to him.

Your lights that got caught, arent in combat with anyone else, so will pivot/slide the minimum to square up with the contacting ele, with both units fighting with 1 ele frontage plus 1 overlap.

It looks like theres room, but if there wasnt, your dark colored unit would slide right slightly to make enough room for you to square up.

rules, page 77 (v2) conforming to enemy, 3rd bullet point (and 4th if you need more room)

At least thats my take on it

cheers

[titanu]

You are missing the point here. If I could NOT corform what happens? Suppose the infantry had charged at the same time as the elephants. What would happen?

[pyruse]

If unable to conform you just leave the bases as they are and carry on fighting as if they had conformed.

[grahambriggs]

I too don't have my rules with me, but that won't stop me from pompous pontification, oh no.

On the bound in which the elephants charge in, you say the elephants can't conform to the front of your BG of archers because to do so they would need to shift the 8 base BG of enemy archers (I can't remember - do the rules say that the enmey "shift" or "shift sideways"?) and that is prevented by your own elephants. That's only true of a shift to the right in the picture. Are they allowed to shift to the left? It's a long distance but it could be the minimum necessary to allow the elephants to conform? If the rules just say "shift" you could push the 8 bases up the screen to make room.

But if the elephants can't conform, they fight where they are. In your bound you'll conform. You don't have the space to end up with one in front edge contact and one in overlap as the 8 bases of enemy are too close you say? Well surely then the minimum conform move is to move your unit 4cm further so that two files of infantry are in frontal contact with elephant bases?

But let's assume that for some reason that can't happen. The enemy foot then charge in. We get to your final diagram. Where do the elephants conform to? They'll conform to the overlap position - that's a legal conform move. So, see that elephant with the yellow triangle on it's head (dairylea cheese for later, no doubt)? Move the BG the minimum possible so the left side edge of that elephant base touches the left flank edge of your archers. i.e. Mr Cheese Head's bottom nestles snugly against the front of that overlapping archer base in the enemy 8 base unit it looks like. Seems to me that your unit will end up fighting 4 dice from the foot unit and two from monsiour le fromage. That'll be two of your BGs in trouble I suspect...

[batesmotel]

The rules say friends "shift sideways" to allow friends to conform.

Chris

[grahambriggs]

The rules say friends "shift sideways" to allow friends to conform.

Chris

Thanks Chris. Could shift to the left then...

[petedalby]

I was intrigued when I read this earlier but having now read the relevant rules on Page 77 I can't see that there's too much of a problem.

The elephants can't conform in their turn but your BG can in your following turn - provided it doesn't expose itself to a flank charge - which I don't think it does.

So all of the advice that you've received, albeit without the rules to hand, appears to be sound.

Were you playing Mr Ruddock? - if so - it's clearly not helpful.

[philqw78]

Were you playing Mr Ruddock? - if so - it's clearly not helpful.

[ney63]

I was intrigued when I read this earlier but having now read the relevant rules on Page 77 I can't see that there's too much of a problem.

The elephants can't conform in their turn but your BG can in your following turn - provided it doesn't expose itself to a flank charge - which I don't think it does.

So all of the advice that you've received, albeit without the rules to hand, appears to be sound.

Were you playing Mr Ruddock? - if so - it's clearly not helpful.

No It was not
Andy

[ney63]

My troops are facing up the picture – two wide three deep light bases just caught by the elephants. The dark based unit beside them is also mine. His troops facing them very closely but NOT touching them are in front.
After the impact the elephants cannot conform as his infantry cannot SLIDE across because my elephants are beside them. So the elephants stay in place.
It was NOT a flank attack.


Now the troops to the front have bolstered and now charge in (both units). We fight an impact with all my front rank bases. I still cannot see anything wrong yet.
But now comes the problem. What happens now? I still cannot see how any confirmation can take place as far as the elephants are concerned.
So who fights in the next melee round?
No elephant combat at all?
4 elephant dice v my 1 dice for my back rank in contact?

Bob looking at the response i think we should have conformed your troops to my Elephants in your bound as pete as said.
andy

[ney63]

Just to be right, do the Bowman count only the third base? The rules do say that you fight as from the front so bow 2 dice Impact and 1 dice from rear fire support? The Hill is a Steep hill which Bob did not mention. And who fights if i charged my bowman the same time as the Elephants? Which i would have done if Bob did not shoot me down the previous shooting.
Andy

[petedalby]

Just to be right, do the Bowman count only the third base?

I don't believe so - as you go on to say, the impact is treated as if it had hit the front base.

The rules do say that you fight as from the front so bow 2 dice Impact and 1 dice from rear fire support?

That's my understanding. And as they are on a Steep Hill and therefore disrupted, they lose 1 of the impact dice. A side issue is whether they count uphill? Arguably they should but that would be an umpire's call.

And who fights if i charged my bowman the same time as the Elephants?

Opinions differ on this. But I think you'd get 4 foot impact dice (less 1 for disruption) plus 2 elephant dice vs 6 impact dice and 3 support shoot dice (less 2 dice and 1 dice respectively for disruption). Others would argue that you only get your choice of 4 impact dice vs 4 impact dice and 2 support shoot dice - all adjusted for disruption as before.

There was a thread on hitting a non-front rank base recently but I don't know if there was a definitive conclusion / agreement as to who fights etc.

[dave_r]

Were you playing Mr Ruddock? - if so - it's clearly not helpful.

I'm quite impressed that an issue during a game i neither witnessed nor participated in and that i havent become involved with during the subsequent discussion is somehow seen to be my fault?

[pyruse]

Evidently you missed the new rule to that effect in v2.

[ShrubMiK]

[petedalby]

I'm quite impressed that an issue during a game i neither witnessed nor participated in and that i havent become involved with during the subsequent discussion is somehow seen to be my fault?

A proud moment indeed!

[zoltan]

Opinions differ on this. But I think you'd get 4 foot impact dice (less 1 for disruption) plus 2 elephant dice vs 6 impact dice and 3 support shoot dice (less 2 dice and 1 dice respectively for disruption). Others would argue that you only get your choice of 4 impact dice vs 4 impact dice and 2 support shoot dice - all adjusted for disruption as before.

There was a thread on hitting a non-front rank base recently but I don't know if there was a definitive conclusion / agreement as to who fights etc.

Pete don't you mean 3 elephant dice (new money) at impact?

It would seem very strange that by virtue of hitting the third rank base of MF the elephants POAs were calculated as if they had hit the front rank base. In other words as if the elephants were up on the hill and therefore counting 'up hill' of the MF when clearly they are not.