formation-1

[grandad]

reading the rule im a bit confused me and my friend have pick armies from trade and treachery army list. i picked the French Italian army and my friend picked and army from the itallian wars army list. i can have a Swiss Kiel pike and heavy weapons which have the advantage of not being hit in the flank or rear he can have landsknechts pike and heavy weapons dose this mean he can have the same bonus

[kevinj]

Yes, page 29 covers legal Keil formations and P80 covers charges that hit the flanks of them. Keils get no protection from being hit in the rear, only Early Tercios get that. You should also be aware of the errata on Keils:

P.28 Keils
Add at the end of the section:
“Any non-tercio battle group that is capable of adopting keil formation (and not forbidden by its army list companion book from doing so) must do so at all times unless it is in, or forming, square. If as a result of base losses it ceases to be a keil, but still has at least eight heavy foot or determined foot bases, it must attempt to reform as a keil as soon as it is able. If it started the battle able to adopt keil formation, but as a result of base losses now has fewer than eight heavy foot or determined foot bases, the only formation changes permitted are to form or leave square, or reduce or expand frontage so that the heavy foot or determined foot are no more than one or two bases wide.”

[Vespasian28]

it is a bit odd that the army list mentions "Swiss pike keils" specifically but a keil is a formation availble to most armies in this period as long as it follows the rules for keils. Principally for a BG to count as a keil it must have at least two files of four bases and of those four at least two must be pike and the others pike, HW or swd(pg29).
Check out the errata for clarifications to keils.

[rbodleyscott]

it is a bit odd that the army list mentions "Swiss pike keils" specifically but a keil is a formation availble to most armies in this period as long as it follows the rules for keils.

The "keil" formation is named after Swiss pike keils.

[Vespasian28]

Fair enough but for newbies, like grandad, some confusion may arise in that the Swiss appear to have keils but others do not.