Superior Infantry

[BrettPT]

Basically, superior infantry (and artillery) are not cost effective, especially for conscripts who pay a (roughly) 60% points premium for being superior. Generally an upgrade to veteran is far more cost effective (and cheaper) than an upgrade to superior for infantry.

Superior cavalry is fine and doesn't need to be changed IMO, except perhaps as in (3) below.

A couple of options to fix could be:

1. Allow superior infantry to ignore a first hit in all circumstances. Basically add "or superior infantry" after "large unit" where-ever the rules talk about ignoring a hit.

2. Allow superior infantry an extra dice when taking any CMT in the assault phase. This would help address the core problem with superior conscripts - you still only get a single dice to charge home when assaulting. If used in conjunction with a rule change to allow units to take CMT to convert a 'retire to 3MU' into a 'halt at 2MU' result for shooting, this may help superior infantry more become the assault troops I feel they should be.

3. Change the CMT-free assault for disordered/blown troops to a CMT-free assault for disordered/blown superior troops.

My preference would be (2) + (3). It would not however help artillery and superior troops would still probably not be very cost effective, (1) would make superior troops cost effective.

I am wary of any changes that make troops more resiliant, and hence may extend the length of games, so a little cautious about (1). However it may be that a more resiliant superior unit would keep the unit fresh and therefore encourage, rather than discourage, it to launch an assault or close to close range. Not sure about this.

Care does need to be taken to avoid 'super troops'. I don't think the above changes do this however if all 3 were adopted, French Old Guard might come close. That said, they are 21 points per base and, having used them in 20-odd games, they certainly are not all-conquering at the moment. The amendment to not allow CCs to attempt a 2nd rally attempt impacted the French Guard quite a bit. When in a pickle, they used to be able to rally from wavering back to fresh in a single turn more often than not. Sadly no longer

Thoughts on superior infantry anyone?

[Blathergut]

I've found I don't bother using superior infantry. I'd much rather have the reroll during shooting that veterans have. Our games seem to be mostly shooting the other side down and away (with an occasional charge to break a wavering unit and cause the cascade).

Allowing superiors to ignore the first hit would be interesting to try. It might see more on the table. (Hmmm...seems to me there were a lot of superior Austrians the last couple times around...maybe Dead. will have some thoughts...)

The one die only for CMT was the problem I had with the early French list with the superior conscripts.

[deadtorius]

Playing Austrians I normally have to take my single Hungarian unit as Superior. I agree that I would rather have them as veteran as the shooting benefits make more sense, along with that extra die for CMT's and cohesion tests. I have tried running the 1805 list with Superior Veteran Grenadiers, expensive but in our first game they held back most of the French army themselves. I will normally run my Hussars as Superior, the re-rolls and better chance at getting into melee makes it worth the points, more so then for a shooting unit.

I have to say that I like your suggestions, it would make them far more useful for infantry.

I think I would back 2 and 3, as my choice for changes to the rules. We should give it a run in our games sometime and let you know how it worked for us. I often find my Hungarians get forced back and have rarely gotten in close to hand to hand combats where their re-rolls would pay off.

[bahdahbum]

2 and 3 might be interesting .

[terrys]

I'd certainly agree that superior infantry areappear to be less useful than superior cavalry.
I generally go for superior cavalry and veteran infantry (if that choice is available).
I have recently been using veteran cavalry and find that they are useful - if you are the one declaring a charge - with their much imporved chance of recovery after combat.

I've yet to use large numbers of superior infantry - but they would be interesting if used as part of a solid front - stopping their charge with even steady troops is not easy - IF their commander has enough CPs to move into contact. if not, they are still likely to halt at 2MU fore a close range shot. The problem is lack of numbers in most armies.