Strange behaviors in Sealion

[acarhj]

Hi,

I was playing Sealion scenario "The Last Ditch" last night (5 times lost all 5 thank you very much!) and noticed some "cheating" the computer was doing.

1) The computer dismounts infantry adjacent to my infantry who were previously hidden. My infantry did not fire back. The should have. Keep in mind, the computer voluntarily dismounted. Their half track did not get destryoyed. So this drew all sorts of fire and resulted in my infantry being destroyed without firing a shot.

2) I saw an 88mm gun dismount. The truck that was carrying it then moved. The 88 then fired in the same turn it dismounted.

These are probably not scenario specific since the units in question actually break the rules of the game. I detected it in this scenario if only because it is a pretty crowded map and I had good visibility into the beaten zone. These bugs are unfortunate because even without the new AI, the scenario is hard enough to win. With the bugs, the scenario is practically unwinnable.

I've also noticed that the Germans seem to be able to steam roll my infantry with their infantry. they will move up, take a casualty and then assault/destroy my infantry in question. This one is more of a gut feeling observation.

John

[pipfromslitherine]

Hmmm - it does look, at first glance, like the AI doesn't trigger reaction when it unloads its units. I will check through and sort out a fix, although it won't be in the Husky update.

I will check out the 88mm firing too - I think someone else mentioned that the AI had the ability to unload and fire, so it might be that some of the logic isn't identical to the player (which it should be). As you say, the crowded nature of the map might mean you are seeing things that usually don't play a factor (as the AI is extremely cautious about unloading, and will generally do so well away from your troops).

Cheers

Pip

[acarhj]

Thanks Pip. Just to let you know, I saw an 88 dismount and fire in the "Counter Stroke" scenario as well. Those sneaky Germans! So, it definitly is not a scenario scripting bug as it seems to affect at least the AI in Sealion. Also, will there any work arounds if you find the problems or is it embedded in the code?

John

[rf900]

I can confirm, artillery and mortars are able to fire the same time they unload. Are you using the enhanced AI? It appears they fire on the second pass that the AI does.

[pipfromslitherine]

It looks like the AI has never suffered unload penalties. We'll look at penalising them for the next update after Husky - provided it doesn't then swing things too far back in terms of the mission balances.

Cheers

Pip

[rf900]

It feels strange/unfair the first time you see it, and I think that in all the other areas the AI plays by the same rules as the player. It makes more sense to keep the rules the same for both and if you want to make it harder for the players, just give a couple of more tanks to the enemy

[acarhj]

@rf900 I had been but my discoveries were without the enhanced AI. I went back and changed it and found that the problems occurred in the Desert campaign as well. I noted that infantry could unload adjacent to me and not draw fire.

@pip I never noticed the penalties before but that may be because the AI was not quite as good as it is now. I suspect that balance won't be an issue. The game plays the human pretty tough now.

[acarhj]

I've noted that AI units still can dismount adjacent to human units and not be attacked. I've also noted that AI towed weapons can dismount and fire in the same turn. Will this problem be fixed?

[pipfromslitherine]

We'll take a look - I would have expected dismounting units to be fired on - the AI is pretty active on dismounting units out of player sight to it should be fairly uncommon, but I can see it might come as a shock when it happens!

Cheers

Pip

[acarhj]

Anything ever going to happen with this bug? It still seems to be happening with any scenario I play. AI Guns dismount and fire. AI Infantry dismount and are not shot at.

[Toby42]

Even with the AI "Cheats", it's still a fun game to play! Pip mentioned in another thread that there would not be any more bug fixes on BA. Apparently they are working on BA2 only?

[acarhj]

That's a shame really. It is a fundimental flaw in an otherwise fantastic game.

[pipfromslitherine]

I think we have this fixed internally, so it will be fixed in the next update, whenever that goes live.

Cheers

Pip

[Toby42]

If you are going to support BA, I'll buy the last two add-ons that I don't have?

[pipfromslitherine]

I'm not sure what you mean by support BA? There is another update in the works, and we will deal with any critical issues that people find. Bear in mind that we often have to choose not to fix minor issues if there is the risk that it might break the larger game.

Cheers

Pip

[acarhj]

I'm not sure what you mean by support BA? There is another update in the works, and we will deal with any critical issues that people find. Bear in mind that we often have to choose not to fix minor issues if there is the risk that it might break the larger game.

Cheers

Pip

Hi Pip. Thanks for the update and the future update! I hope this is not in the "minor" category as it does actually allow the computer to cheat. Makes for a less fun experience IMHO. Looking forward to the next (last?) update.

John

[Toby42]

I'm not sure what you mean by support BA? There is another update in the works, and we will deal with any critical issues that people find. Bear in mind that we often have to choose not to fix minor issues if there is the risk that it might break the larger game.

Cheers

Pip

You made a comment on the thread "AI Airstrikes Cheat" that I guess that I Interpreted the wrong way?

"So, yes, they do have unfair knowledge of your forces. It's likely that we won't fix this issue given the potential bugs and balance issues, but we will definitely ensure that no more instances occur going forward.

Cheers

Pip"

[acarhj]

Unfair knowledge is different from actually breaking the rules of combat. I am more concerned with the AI actually breaking game rules rather than taking a peak at your hidden units.

[pipfromslitherine]

In this case I believe we have fixed the AI loading/unloading issue (though the gameplay repercussions will have been very slight indeed).

Cheers

Pip