Tried a FoG Learning Game with Young Players

rossco · Post by **rossco** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:31 pm

Hi folks.

The other evening I tried a doubles game of FoG, with one of the players on each side being a junior (one 13, the other 10). Both kids enjoyed the game and found the basic mechanisms relatively straight forward to learn. The other adult player was new to FoG and was delighted to see his New Kingdom Egyptian chariots being able to inflict damage with their bows and evade when charged by heavy infantry: he commented afterwards that it "felt historical".

All in all, it was good to find out that FoG is easy to learn by young gamers.

Regards,
Ross Dawe.

ars_belli · Post by **ars_belli** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:50 pm

That is great news... thanks for sharing! While it's still definitely "early times," thus far the only people I have seen describe FoG as being somewhat difficult to learn are a handful of long-time DBM players, who apparently bring with them years of deeply ingrained preconceptions and assumptions about how an ancients rules set "ought" to look.

Thanks again,
Scott

jdm · Post by **jdm** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:30 pm

What do people think about a kids set of rules. No more that say 8 pages

JDM

spike · Post by **spike** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:35 pm

jdm wrote:What do people think about a kids set of rules. No more that say 8 pages

JDM

I made a suggestion earlier in the playtest, that we should have simplified starter rule set, to get players into the concepts within AOW as it then was. I stick by that so I think its a good idea.

Spike

ars_belli · Post by **ars_belli** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:38 pm

jdm wrote:What do people think about a kids set of rules. No more that say 8 pages

JDM

Personally, I think that an 8-page "FoG Light" (

), written for kids and featuring considerably smaller tabletop armies, would be a great addition to the wargaming scene.

Cheers,
Scott

davidandlynda · Post by **davidandlynda** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:03 pm

Good idea,a bit like DBA to DBM,it might help us older folk as well
David

Gunrunner · Post by **Gunrunner** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:24 pm

Yep FOG Lite would be great as an extra option for any newbies to the hobby, no matter what age.

Me and ma' boys would be keen to beta that one

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:46 pm

jdm wrote:What do people think about a kids set of rules. No more that say 8 pages

JDM

How much would you be thinking of selling it for JD ?

warpaintjj · Post by **warpaintjj** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:11 am

Sell it? The best thing you could do with this great idea would be to make it available FREE as a download from this site, with it's own forum etc.

Sounds radical but what a great encouragement to all kinds of players, old and new, to get into FOG and wargaming in general.

You could keep the production values high, limiting print quality only to the quality of the users printer. Sounds like a great loss leader/ bait to me. If you're clever you could make the Army lists double up for both systems, FOG 100?

Hi JD, I'll reply re photos very soon,

regards

jeremy

rayfredjohn · Post by **rayfredjohn** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:03 am

Nick G and I played a game of FOG at my place on Wednesday night. We didn't finish the game 'cos Nick wimped out and went to bed. I didn't pack away the figures but left them in position. My 9 yer old saw them set up in the morning and begged me to leave them out and let him takeover Nick's army after school that evening. He plays Warhmammer 40k and has sat through a number of DBM games. He picked up the basics of FOG easily. He also had a fair appreciation of unit capabilities from playing computer games like "Great Battles of Rome" and "Medieval Total War".

The one thing that would put him off is the set up time!

Ray

and yes...... he beat me!!

davem · Post by **davem** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:35 am

rayfredjohn wrote:Nick G and I played a game of FOG at my place on Wednesday night. We didn't finish the game 'cos Nick wimped out and went to bed. I didn't pack away the figures but left them in position. My 9 yer old saw them set up in the morning and begged me to leave them out and let him takeover Nick's army after school that evening. He plays Warhmammer 40k and has sat through a number of DBM games. He picked up the basics of FOG easily. He also had a fair appreciation of unit capabilities from playing computer games like "Great Battles of Rome" and "Medieval Total War".

The one thing that would put him off is the set up time!

Ray

and yes...... he beat me!!

Somehow I can see that....a 9yr old shouldering Nik aside and saying "It's gonna be OK, just let me handle things..."
As to George beating you well everyone does that...don't they Mr R??;-p

Seriously, I think FOG "light" could really be a winner. There's lots of us with kids who'd like to have a go with Dad's soldiers and an accessible ruleset would be a great intro.

Foglight...hmmm

nicofig · Post by **nicofig** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:55 am

I agree with you : +1 for a fast play FoG ou Fog-lite, +1 for a specific forum.

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:45 pm

The problem is if it becomes more popular than regular FoG!

spike · Post by **spike** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:18 pm

carlos wrote:The problem is if it becomes more popular than regular FoG!

Unlikley given the history of DBA.

ars_belli · Post by **ars_belli** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:14 pm

carlos wrote:The problem is if it becomes more popular than regular FoG!

If 'FoG Lite' is thoughtfully designed, presented and marketed to a distinct segment of the wargaming community, i.e. kids and casual gamers, then it should be no problem at all.

And if the design will encourage players to 'graduate' from FoG Lite to FoG over time, so much the better!

Cheers,
Scott

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Nathan , my 11 year old son told me he finds FOG easier to understand than DBM . He reads no english ( and speaks it very little ) . A light version would be a good way to introduce the game for newbies . It seems that people who have already played some kind of games get on easely

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:59 pm

DBA has the Fanaticus.org website which is miles better than any other website for DBM. Not sure how popular it is in practice, but it seems to attract a lot of players in the USA?

pcelella · Post by **pcelella** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:01 pm

I don't know guys, about an easier play version of FoG. It seems to play simply enough to me already, and I would think a kid interested enough in even playing such a game in the first place would be sharp enough to pick it up quickly. I would hate to dumb it down in too extreme a fashion to accommodate a lowest common denominator. Maybe an 8 page or so quick start guide, written in a conversational style might be useful though.

Peter

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:39 pm

A "lite" version need not be dumbed down, however, if aimed at younger players a quicker game is likely to be a good thing as attention spans are shorter - so cutting back some mechanims to allow this would be a good thing IMO.

davem · Post by **davem** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:11 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:A "lite" version need not be dumbed down, however, if aimed at younger players a quicker game is likely to be a good thing as attention spans are shorter - so cutting back some mechanims to allow this would be a good thing IMO.

Yes, that's my view. Perhaps shortcuts such as merging impact and melee into one phase, all movement includes charges etc. Instead of CMT, 4.5.6 required if drilled, 5.6 if undrilled etc.
I'm sure there are many mechanisms that can be simplified without diluting too much of the "flavour" of FOG.