question about melee combat

[garga3]

Hello everybody,

I am fairly new to the game, but i am very surprised (positively) by its depth and fluid controls.

Still as i am still learning i happened to a case which i do not understand.

I had my light spear average slavs melee an arab cavalary (both close to 100%).

According to logs:
The POAs 0-attk 2-defender.
I initially thought 2 POA is +2 at dice, but then i checked rules and it is +1(67% hit).
So the rolls:
5,5,5,4 (i was incredibly lucky all that battle) vs 2,2,5,4(he needed 3s i guess)

And game says 3:2 win for me.

Now my question is why were my hits decreased by one, as i understand the rules it should be 4:2.

Also i am not completely sure how terrain effects battle ( is seems d is -1 vd -2 POA), how fortifications work, and how rear attacks work(as it seems they do not always auto-coh), and i cannot find exact explanation in the rules, i did already spot that my mf ls slavs fair very well in woods, but they should have max 1 terrain POA there(they also have a d there). It seems terrain effects in negative way a lot of abilities, as the average troops mentioned almost always crush any superior better armored cav,hf,pikes while defending the woods.

Thx in advance for helping me.

[Tiavals]

Seems to me that your POA was +1, not +2. If it were +2, your results shouldn't happen, but if it's +1, then that's exactly how it'll go. It is possible the game displays the wrong POA. I'm guessing your slavs were protected without Swordsmen, and the cavalry was protected with Swordsmen. That would explain the results. Or if both are swordsmen, then the enemy is Armored.

If you have POA +1, then you hit with a roll of 3 and the enemy hits with a roll of 5. If +2, then 2 and 6.

Terrain doesn't affect POA at all. It removes dice. D is 3/4 dice and VD is 1/2 dice. Same as with disrupted and fragmented.(Normally you use 4 dice, so D is 3 and VD is 2 dice, but other things make you lose dice too, like being outnumbered).

Fortifications protect units from attacks from the 2 front hexes of the fortification. I believe they nullify lancer bonus and give +1 POA in every situation.

Rear attacks auto-disrupt if you start your turn(as you charge) in a hex that is in a straight line from the two rear hexes of the enemy. You can also charge an enemy in the rear without being in a straight line, which doesn't auto-disrupt. Both styles of rear attacks are at +2 POA no matter what the enemy has and you have. Skirmishers and light horses don't work as well, they only auto-disrupt each other, and use much less dice and don't get POA against regular units.

Terrain in general does a few things: It VDs "heavy" units(heavy foot, any mounted), and Ds medium foot. Light foot is unhindered. Terrain also makes it so that an enemy cannot use lancers when either unit is in terrain. Also, due to the fact that VD is equal to fragmented and D is disrupted, terrain is especially bad for spear units(offensive, defensive, pikes) to be in, since F nullifies all your spear POA and D nullifies your spearmen's ability to ignore swordsmen.

Suppose a superior better armored cav is fighting a MF in the woods(melee phase). Neither has swordsmen or anything else. Normally the cavalry is at +1POA due to having better armor, and this is unnaffected in the forest. So, +1 POA for cavalry, -1 for MF. Since both are in woods, it's VD for cavalry(2 dice) and D for MF(thus 3 dice). Now, this means the cavalry rolls 2 dice and hits with anything above 3, and since they're superior, they reroll any 1s they roll the first time. The MF on the other hand rolls 3 dice and hits with 5 or above.
Therefore the cavalry has a 33%*33% = roughly 11% chance of rolling 0 hits. It has a 66%*33% (times two) = roughly 44% chance of rolling 1 hit. It has 66%*66% = roughly 44% chance of rolling 2 hits. (This is ignoring it's superior trait, which I'm not in the mood to calculate as it makes things more annoying. Practically it's chance for getting higher results is better)
The MF has a 4/6 * 4/6 * 4/6 = 30% chance of rolling 0 hits. 4/6 *4/6*2/6 * 3 = 43% of rolling 1 hit. 4/6*2/6*2/6 * 3= 22% for 2 hits, 1/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 4% of rolling 3 hits.
Thus the likelihood of a draw is equal but the horse has better chances of winning.
In the impact phase, the foot, if it has LS, has a far superior chance of winning.

I'm wondering if I calculated this all right or not. Well, too late for that now, if it seems I'm wrong, feel free to ignore what I said.

[TheGrayMouser]

Well heres a way to look at it

POA's are netted out and the final result is you have one of three possibilities: a big advantage (++) an advantage (+) or are equal, correspondingly your opponenet will be at a big disadvantage (--) a disadvantage(-) or equal

so the roll to hit on a 6d is:
'++' hit on a 3 4 5 6
'+' or equal 4 5 6
'-' or '--' = 5 6

In your example ( i have to assume the medium slav was protected lightspear, no sword) vs assumption the arab lancer was lance armoured sword and this was melee combat
also assuming neither unit was disrupted or fragged and assume both unit in clear terrain

the arab would be at a ++ POA (one for superior armour, 1 for sword ) the slav counts no POA and thus the combat is ++ vs --

Nothing "adds" to a dice roll in combat, however superior units reroll "ones" elite reroll 1's and 2's, poor troops must reroll 6's a leader with the unit bumps this up one cumulatively as well

[Aristides]

Interesting stuff...

so the roll to hit on a 6d is:
'++' hit on a 3 4 5 6
'+' or equal 4 5 6
'-' or '--' = 5 6

...and ...

If you have POA +1, then you hit with a roll of 3 and the enemy hits with a roll of 5. If +2, then 2 and 6.

Which is right?

Also, what about this? Hmm, how do you upload/embed an image?
In my screenshot, I attacked with 1 poa vs 0 poas; my rolls were 1,4,1,1, which gave 1 hit, and my opponent rolled 6,1,1,1 and scored 2 hits! These crazy results seem to happen a lot.

[TheGrayMouser]

HArd to say w/o a screenie and or more info BUt if the foot had any kind of bow support , they would get 2 additional dice vs a charging enemy cavalry unit
The game engine/nor the verbiose combat log will show these xtra dice, just the "hits"
(this will change/be fixed in the Unity version)

If its not that then, it is something else, possibly sinister

[Tiavals]

TheGrayMouser is right, if I recall correctly. I checked it afterwards and found out I was wrong.

[Aristides]

Thanks T.

TGM, do you know how to get a screenie in a message here - I've seen others do it for AARs...
But regardless of rear-rank LF/MF missile fire, the verbose report is what says, "6,1,1,1 defender scores 2 hits" How can one of the 1s be a hit and not the other two? Also, I had poa and enemy none, so why did my 1s not equal hits?

Or are you saying maybe one hit was from the RR missile fire, and the hit was reported in the verbose but the dice rolled were not? That might just make sense, actually...