Armor pictures comment

[JyriErik]

I was looking through the unit pictures, and while the Italians get the M13/40 for level 0, all the others are German models. While I realize that most Italian tanks of WW II weren't the best, however, I think the Semovente (although it was an assault gun) should have been considered as a graphic for one of the higher level pictures.

As for US tanks. Having the Matilda for level 0 and the Churchill for level 1 seems weird. The Stuart and Lee/Grant would seem more appropriate tanks.

If I didn't stink at graphics I could whip something up myself, so here's my request.

Jyri

[Ryben]

I agree with the US tanks, they should have graphics on its own.

I would suggest:

US Army

level 1 - M3 Stuart
level 2 - M3 Lee / Grant
level 4 - Sherman
level 4 - Sherman E8
level 5 - Hellcat


UK Army

level 1 - A10 Crusader
level 2 - Matilda II
level 3 - M3 Lee Grant
level 4 - Cromwell
level 5 - Churchill VII

For the italians (and French) it wouldn´t hurt having a couple of extra pictures but i´ve found it´s highly unlikely that you advance more than one level so it isn´t really neccesary to have pictures for all tech levels.

[Maj_Battaglia]

I agree that it would be nice to have more diversity in the models represented for Italy and US. My own suggestion would be a bit different:

US:

1-M3 Lee (Stuart was always a light tank, and AFAIK the Grant version was only Lend/Lease)
2-M4 Sherman
3-M4A3 (w/ 76mm gun)
4-M4A3E8
5-M26 Pershing (Hellcat was only a light TD)

Italy:

1-M11/39
2-M13/40
3-M15/42
4 & 5-Something German, maybe old PzKw III J & PzKw IV F2? I agree it is unlikely that the Italians would get this far in armor developments.

[JyriErik]

The Grant (M3A5) was the name the British gave the Lee's (M3A1) that they got via Lend/Lease. Giving the US a light tank for level 0 would seem to make sense. Germany, Italy, France and the USSR all have lighter tanks for their level 0, which makes sense to me, since this is the least effective level. Level 1 onward should get "real" tanks.

As an aside, I also noticed that the Italians use German planes for their pictures. While Italian tanks weren't particularly good, their aircraft were. The MC 205, G 55, and Re 2005 all appeared in 1943 and were all capable fighters. The only "problem" they had was Italy surrendered before they were in widespread use. While their ground attack aircraft weren't particulary good, they did have several, so at least have something Italian before using Stukas. They also made several two-engine, three-engine and one four-engine strategic bombers during the war, so those could take the place of German bombers also.

Jyri

[Maj_Battaglia]

The Grant (M3A5) was the name the British gave the Lee's (M3A1) that they got via Lend/Lease.

Yes, indeed. My point was that earlier you posted "Lee/Grant" as being appropriate for the US. There was a slight difference in that the Grant did not have the commander's cupola that the Lee had; Grant was specially built without that feature for the British. So if one were to do a mod (or patch) that included more US tank models, one would want to represent the Lee version for the US and not the Grant. That was the distinction I was trying to draw: Lee = US, Grant = Commonwealth via Lend/Lease.

As a side note, it was the British who came up with the nicknames for many US tanks. To the US, the M3 series was the "M3, medium." The British came up with Grant and Lee (and Sherman and Stuart).

The M3 series (both light "Stuart" and medium "Lee/Grant") was not built until 1941, though, so perhaps an old M2 medium would be in order for US level 0 (in case the Germans want to invade in 1940!)?

I would disagree that light tanks are represented for many country's level 0. "Lighter" than successors, yes, but still designated as medium tanks. The German tank appears to be a PzKw IV with a short 75. Maybe the E model? That was a medium tank (the PzKw I and II were light). The Italian tank appears to be a M13/40, again a medium tank (they had the L3/35 and L6/40 as a light tank). USSR has a BT-7 (it looks like) which was not a light tank (though perhaps not medium, it was referred to as a "fast" tank). The French tank is a Char B1, a medium/heavy.

Agreed on your point about Italian aircraft.

[borsook79]

German pictures are also highly illogical, at the start of the war it's Panzer IV even though it was the rarest of the German tanks at the time (and not the best). Then it goes to other Panzer IV models... it would be more logical to start from Panzer II.

[JyriErik]

I would disagree that light tanks are represented for many country's level 0. "Lighter" than successors, yes, but still designated as medium tanks. The German tank appears to be a PzKw IV with a short 75. Maybe the E model? That was a medium tank (the PzKw I and II were light). The Italian tank appears to be a M13/40, again a medium tank (they had the L3/35 and L6/40 as a light tank). USSR has a BT-7 (it looks like) which was not a light tank (though perhaps not medium, it was referred to as a "fast" tank). The French tank is a Char B1, a medium/heavy.

Oops Brainfart. For some reason I thought level 0 was a PZ II. Now that I look at it, it is a PZ IV D (although the A & C looked pretty similar). Did the same with the French and USSR tanks.

Jyri

[syagrius]

The US sprites are the worst, with a Matilda and a Churchill. The US never used these tanks! The Lee should definitly be added. Also there is a sprite of a Spitfire with early US figthers.

[Maj_Battaglia]

Yeah, the US aircraft also are lacking. A mod/patch might include the following:

Fighter: P-36/P-40/P-47/P-51/P-59
Fighterbomber: A-17/A-20/P-47/P-38/A-26 (this is sort of a mishmash; except for the A-17, these all operated simultaneously and served in different roles)
Bomber: B-18/B-17D/B-24/B-17G/B-29 (I know these last weren't used in Europe; I suspect they would have had the war gone on longer and more came into production)