scythed chariots

[grandad]

im i reading this right in the jap they are removed from the game if they are still in contact with a enemy unit who is steady! thinking about it you could break off but this is the same phase!

[kal5056]

No break offs.
At the end of the JAP they are picked up if they are in contact with any unbroken enemy.
They either hit and destroy thier target or are removed.

Gino
SMAC

[stenic]

unbroken enemy.

This is an important distinction since you need to drop a fresh BG 3 times so in effect cause at least 1 double drop in either impact or melee and 1 drop in the other phase.

Or hit an already disrupted or frag'd BG.

If you plan to use them have support close by to take advantage of any damage they do to fresh units or hold them back to clear up any walking wounded.

[kal5056]

You can also set up the impact such that they hit with another BG and are then pushed off into an over lap only.
Then you get 3 dice for the base that hits plus the minus one for losing impact to Scythed Chariots and then they can fight in over lap until a fresh enemy presents itself. Not easy to set up but not impossible either.

Gino
SMAC

[ShrubMiK]

And of course that is a good representation on the table-top of what a clever commander would achieve in real life

(Although his own troops might have something to say on the matter as they charge alongside those nasty whirly scythy thingys.)

[stenic]

Well after 2 practice games and 4 tournament games (PAW) trying to make them work they are not worth the mdf they are based on. I used Later Seleucid.

In 1 game they performed ok but obly ever as overlaps or were kept out of the way behind my lines - I'm no historian but I suspect that's not a historical usage.

In 1game I managed to deploy them to the front, LF in front of them and pike behind to support and mop up. Worked a dream...or so I thought. The IF warband to the front of MY LF charged, I evaded behind the Pike and the warband hit my Scythed Chariot. I won impact and melee and he went to fragged. Woohoo !!! Then they went in the JAP.

His turn he's fragged so cannot and will not charge, so he rallies with general and rally support... Hhmmm.

My go and I only move 3 MUS, in JAP he rallies again!

His turn and his Impact foot are now happy as Larry and charge in, win impact, my pike go down and then lose the melee too and go fragged.

So because my pike only go 3 MUs they failed to get into the warband to take advantage of the work done by the Scythed Chariots, the depth of the base meant I was over 3 MUs away giving him 2 or possiblt 3 turns to rally.

In all the other games they failed to have any rreasonable effect.

My chariots will not appear again. I know historically they were not an uber weapon but you'd like to think when they do work you could take advantage. Yes, my opponent may have failed to rally, but with 3 chances and rear support it's always likely that he'll manage it.

Heavy Foot cannot take advantage of any success from chariots.

[grahambriggs]

Using scythed chariots historically seems to be a problem with these rules, as indeed it is with many. A less historical, but possibly more effective, approach could be to hit with pike and scythed chariots at the same time.

The other thing I've mused on is having two units of the chariots hitting successively.

[batesmotel]

In a lot of ways the biggest effect when I've used scythed chariots in V1 is that they tend to do a great job of focusing the opposing player's attention. In one V1 game they spent several turns staring down a BG of elephants while the battle was resolved elsewhere. In others I've found they can be quite useful as an extra BG with a cavalry force to give you an extra unit to threaten flanks or an overlap. In general I think they are definitely working with mounted troops to follow up or combine attacks rather than with foot. I've only used them with my Late Achaemenids so not sure they have a place in an army with enough good shock troops without them.

With elephants also now getting 3 dice per at impact and the inability to have generals boost their combat re-rolls in V2, Scythed Chariots are less likely to be effective with the new changes.

Chris

[stenic]

The other thing I've mused on is having two units of the chariots hitting successively.

Interesting, hadn't considered that. On reflection In 15mm that might be viable but in 25mm the chances are some pesky lights will have done away with the front rank before you can effectivley use them.

It could just be a matter of bases sizes in 25mm meaning they fail more spectacularly at that scale. In 15mm my pike would have easily crashed into the MF who would have only had 1 round to rally, in my case from frag'd to disrupted, and I'm then thowing 12 dice (12 pike) to his 8 (3 frontage warband).

I move that 28mm Scythed Chariots be considered for 60mm square base!! Seriously, it' not a bad rule change to at least enable historical supporting troops to take advantage as was the plan. An additional POA would not fix the distance issue.

[grandad]

can a commander be put with Sch?

[grahambriggs]

can a commander be put with Sch?

Yes, but there's limited value as scythed chariots can't be part of a Battle Line (so he could only move the chariots).

[kevinj]

I move that 28mm Scythed Chariots be considered for 60mm square base

I'm guessing that the 80mm depth is probably more due to the size of 28mm models than any game reason. I've always thought that 1 inch MUs don't make a lot of sense at that scale.

[ShrubMiK]

1 inch MUs at 25mm change a number of facets of the game in more or less significant ways. Not necessarily inherently bad in each case, but still different. So it seems illogical to me, but of course each to their own.

...You could put 15-20mm SCh on a 60mm base and claim they are smaller figures than the rest of your army to represent the effectiveness of your new patented camouflage scheme.

[stenic]

can a commander be put with Sch?

Yes, but there's limited value as scythed chariots can't be part of a Battle Line (so he could only move the chariots).

More over he cannot order re-rolls in the same manner that they cannot for elephants.

[grandad]

what advantage would you get with him there then

[Robert241167]

A +1 to any cohesion test if a TC or +2 if an IC.

Rob

[grahambriggs]

Allows them to wheel when close to the enemy. Helps on the Complex Move test if they don't want to charge. Not as much benefit as if he's with other troop types. But you asked if he could be with them, not if it was a good idea!