Gnat's Todger/Bee's Dicks

[ravenflight]

Hello All,

After looking through the thread of 'V2 Blocked Routers' I thought I'd post this:

I don't see why people don't move the 'half inch'. A Gnat's Todger or a Bee's Dick is a very small measure, but in essence (as far as the rules are concerned) there is no difference between 1/64,000th of an inch (the proverbial 'out by a Gnat's Todger/Bee's Dick'), 1/2 an inch and 63,999/64,000th of an inch (the proverbial 'in by a Gnat's Todger/Bee's Dick'). You are either "IN" or "OUT".


Charge/Evade:
A +/- result in a 'charge/evade' will either catch the BG or not. If the difference needed is 2" and you therefore need a +/- result, it doesn't matter if the distance between the two BG's is 2 1/64,000th of an inch, 2 1/2" or 2 63,999/64,000th of an inch. It is 'between 2 and 3" and therefore the BG is caught.

Shooting:
If your effective range is 3" and you're 3 1/64,000th" away, you're not in effective range... the same as if you were at 3 1/2"!

I don't really understand the appeal of being so bloody close to 6" that it's almost impossible to measure. Make it 6 1/2".

It's easy.

I can see that there would be circumstances where you DO wish to be as close as possible but not in, but generally I think the 'gnat's todger/bees dick' is well over-used.

[kevinj]

Yes, and in reality people don't micromeasure to that extent. If I want to stop outside of a specific distance I'll move to a point where a measure of that distance can clearly fit and leave a visible gap. As you say, the actual fraction is irrelevant.

[philqw78]

it would be simpler if the rules were second move no closer than 8MU.
Everyone is out of range and charge reach (except artillery but their range goes well past 8MU)

[ravenflight]

it would be simpler if the rules were second move no closer than 8MU.

... but they're not... and the V2 rules have only just come out so it's not going to change any time soon.

So, my original point still stands. If you're at 6 1/2" it makes it clear. You're well out, but in your situation where you were caught when evading would never have happened, yet your shooting would have been identical.

[dave_r]

it would be simpler if the rules were second move no closer than 8MU.

... but they're not... and the V2 rules have only just come out so it's not going to change any time soon.

So, my original point still stands. If you're at 6 1/2" it makes it clear. You're well out, but in your situation where you were caught when evading would never have happened, yet your shooting would have been identical.

It can make a huge difference when you don't want your opponent to be able to wheel during a charge. i.e. if I get as close as I possibly can because I don't want my opponent to wheel, then if you choose to evade when charged your opponent must go straight with no wheel.

[paullongmore]

It can make a huge difference when you don't want your opponent to be able to wheel during a charge. i.e. if I get as close as I possibly can because I don't want my opponent to wheel, then if you choose to evade when charged your opponent must go straight with no wheel.

At V1. At V2 you can wheel an inch

[ravenflight]

It can make a huge difference when you don't want your opponent to be able to wheel during a charge. i.e. if I get as close as I possibly can because I don't want my opponent to wheel, then if you choose to evade when charged your opponent must go straight with no wheel.

As I said there may be situations where you want to be as close as possible, but generally this is not the case.

If you move your LH to 6 1/2" and the enemy move their HF up 3", you're now at 3 1/2". In this case you can then move your LH up to within the proverbial Gnat's Todger/Bees Dick.

How is this any different from when you move to 6.00000000000000000000000001"?

There are situations where it WILL matter, but generally it wont.

[dave_r]

It can make a huge difference when you don't want your opponent to be able to wheel during a charge. i.e. if I get as close as I possibly can because I don't want my opponent to wheel, then if you choose to evade when charged your opponent must go straight with no wheel.

As I said there may be situations where you want to be as close as possible, but generally this is not the case.

If you move your LH to 6 1/2" and the enemy move their HF up 3", you're now at 3 1/2". In this case you can then move your LH up to within the proverbial Gnat's Todger/Bees Dick.

How is this any different from when you move to 6.00000000000000000000000001"?

There are situations where it WILL matter, but generally it wont.

Just quoting your own original statement:

but in essence (as far as the rules are concerned) there is no difference between 1/64,000th of an inch (the proverbial 'out by a Gnat's Todger/Bee's Dick'), 1/2 an inch and 63,999/64,000th of an inch

It now appears you think there is a difference and there are instances where it's important?

That being the case, that's why it's in the rules. Although, as Paul states above, it's less important with the inch wheel you are allowed.

[ShrubMiK]

Trying to make it obvious on the table seems sensible.

The complement to that is: if you really do feel you need to get as far forward as possible without entering the zone of doom, just say you are moving up to just outside of 6MU (or whatever). That way the micro-measurement and potential for argument doesn't come up.

Of course, you still have issues where you want to get into charge/shooting range, you carefully measure and move as far as you can, and it is then up for argument whether you are just in or just out and cannot be deduced from knowing a previous distance between these two BGs with absolute accuracy. And occasionally still up for argument even when the measurement shows the difference is fully half a centimetre :/

[Vespasian28]

I think leaving a clear gap is a very valid point as in a couple of moves time when trying to charge who can remember which battlegroups got to point A via normal moves and are at 3" and those who got there following a second move leaving them 3" and a gnat's todger away.

I think this applies even more so to FOGR where there are more MF troops armed with arquebus etc who need to make every shot count. I know I have played games where this point of halting march moves outside of 6" has been forgotten and when measuring to charge a couple of moves later the chargers get in rather than taking another round of shooting. Most of which is not deliberate foul play but a natural phenomenom of measuring micro distances over a couple of turns.

I might try a marker for units who have marched as a reminder for myself next game. And I only need to mark units who have a move equivalent to shooting short ranges.

[grahambriggs]

It's sometimes not important, particularly when troops are neatly lined up. However, a player wanting to close with the enemy often wants to move as far as possible. When the enemy is at an angle, it can mean less chance for the enemy to minimise the impact or slip away. And don't forget a camp is 8cm deep. So that half inch you generously give away might be the difference between sacking it and being just short in the last bound.

I've never found a problem with "six and a little bit" and opponents don't either