There is a major problem with any wargame the moment it gets past tactical. You run into the problem of what to do if you don't lose when in real life they did.
But this isn't normally a problem with tactical, and I actually strongly believe that is why most tactical games are successes even when in some cases the designs are full of gaffes.
I love a lot of games at the grand strategy level, but even the ones I love often have issues. The what if barrier that some love without any regard to how impossible their requests are is the main head ache in most cases. It's rarely about getting the local battles correct, it is all about what do you do if the side that lost doesn't lose.
We can code a lot into games, but, it's no small trick inventing non existent history.
I can quote several battles that SHOULD have been fought and weren't and often for reasons no one can understand. Battles that if they had been fought would have dramatically altered the entire war. For their not taking Malta, I think the Axis lost the war. It cost them the Suez and it caused them to lose the Med, and that meant the allies were able to start the march on Rome. If Suez had fallen you can bet the whole of the Middle east was gone, and then the Germans meet the Japanese in India and you can kiss the Russians good buy because they were not in any possible to fight off both Germany and Japan in 43.
But how do you design a game to reflect that? They never took Malta. Although in a wargame, you can always just say screw the losses, I don't care if I wipe out the whole of the airborne, they'll die heroes to their country. I am fairly sure Hitler just lacked any real imagination in the long run.
The thing is, war is about politics gone nasty, but it is still politics that starts wars. And yet most wargames ignore politics or just consider it a secondary nuisance.
Hitler was an idiot for not freeing the Ukrainians from Stalin, but it didn't suit his politics. He was an idiot for throwing away the 6th army, but again, he was never a real general, and all of his early victories did him more harm than he realized later in the war when it was proven beating up the helpless doesn't make you a genius. The fact his generals hung on so long means they should have been running things in the first place. Lucky for us Hitler sucked. The majority of the reason it is so easy to hit Russia in 41 was because Stalin had just given his military a lobotomy. If he had not done so, I dare say Hitler's first year in Russia would likely have been his last.
But none of the above even matters to tactical games.
And the real reason I play most wargames is really to see if I can out general a general in a famous battle. Proving I am more capable that Hitler, well hell that isn't even a challenge. But I also have hindsight. Not to mention I lack his blind obsession with racism deciding what political decisions to make.
Replaying the whole war ... it's not necessary
Moderator: Slitherine Core
-
MrsWargamer
- 1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18

- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:17 pm
- Location: Canada
Return to “General Discussion”
Jump to
- Announcements & General Discussion
- ↳ News & Announcements
- ↳ General Discussion
- ↳ Game Ideas
- ↳ Archive
- ↳ Slitherine/Matrix Press Event 2012 - The Home of Wargamers
- ↳ Blogs
- ↳ Deadliest Warrior on Spike TV
- ↳ Military Art
- ↳ Shenandoah General Discussion Forum
- ↳ Shenandoah Studio Website
- ↳ Gettysburg: The Tide Turns
- ↳ Gettysburg: The Tide Turns - Technical Support
- ↳ Gettysburg: The Tide Turns - After Action Reports (AAR)
- ↳ Battle of the Bulge
- ↳ Battle of the Bulge: Tech Support
- ↳ Drive On Moscow
- ↳ Drive on Moscow iPad
- ↳ Desert Fox: The Battle of El Alamein
- Regional
- ↳ Español
- Coming Soon
- ↳ Bolt Action
- ↳ Battleplan
- ↳ Stormbinders
- ↳ Platoon Commander
- ↳ Space Station Designer
- ↳ Space Station Designer - Discord Server
- ↳ Ancient Arenas: Chariots
- ↳ Radio Commander: Pacific '41
- Latest Releases
- ↳ Field of Glory: Kingdoms
- ↳ Field of Glory: Kingdoms - Modding and Scenarios
- ↳ Field of Glory: Kingdoms - After Action Reports
- ↳ Headquarters: Cold War
- ↳ ICBM: Escalation
- ↳ ICBM: Escalation Tech Support
- ↳ ICBM: Escalation - Discord Server
- ↳ Panzer Corps 2
- ↳ Join the Discord server
- ↳ Panzer Corps 2: Tech Support
- ↳ Panzer Corps 2 Scenario Design
- ↳ Panzer Corps 2: Multiplayer & Tournaments
- ↳ Panzer Corps 2 AARs
- ↳ Terminator: Dark Fate – Defiance
- ↳ Terminator: Dark Fate Defiance Tech Support
- ↳ Broken Arrow
- ↳ Headquarters World War II
- ↳ Scramble: Battle of Britain
- ↳ Stargate: Timekeepers
- ↳ Stargate: Timekeepers - Tech Support
- ↳ Starship Troopers - Terran Command
- ↳ Master of Magic
- ↳ Field of Glory II
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Tech Support
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Scenario Design
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Modding
- ↳ Field of Glory II: After Action Reports
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Tournaments & Leagues
- ↳ Field of Glory II Digital League
- ↳ Knock-out Tournament
- ↳ Field of Glory II: The Divisional Championships
- ↳ FOG II World Team Championship
- ↳ Archive
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Frequently Asked Questions
- ↳ The FOGII Beta Archives
- ↳ Field of Glory II 1.5.15 Public Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II 1.5.20 Public Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II 1.5.22 Public Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II - 1.5.24 Open Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II - 1.5.26 Open Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II - 1.5.27 Open Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II - 1.5.29 Open Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II - 1.5.31 Open Beta
- ↳ Field of Glory II - Open Beta 1.5.33
- ↳ Field of Glory II - Open Beta 1.5.37
- ↳ Field of Glory II Open Beta v.1.5.39
- ↳ Warhammer 40,000: Battlesector
- ↳ Planetary Supremacy
- ↳ Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War
- ↳ Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War: Tech Support
- ↳ Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War: Modding
- ↳ Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War: Suggestions
- ↳ Master of Magic Classic
- ↳ Master of Magic: Tech Support
- ↳ Caster of Magic
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval Tech Support
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - Scenario Design
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - Modding
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - After Action Reports
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - Tournaments & Leagues
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - Frequently Asked Questions
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval Beta Archives
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - Open Beta v.1.5.7
- ↳ Field of Glory II: Medieval - Open Beta
- ↳ Order of Battle Series
- ↳ Order of Battle : World War II - Tech Support
- ↳ Order of Battle Bug Submissions
- ↳ Order of Battle : World War II - AAR
- ↳ Order of Battle : World War II - Scenario Design
- ↳ Order of Battle : World War II - Multiplayer
- ↳ Multiplayer Beta
- ↳ Fantasy General II - Invasion
- ↳ Fantasy General II - Invasion: Tech Support
- ↳ Content Editor
- ↳ Fantasy General II - Beta Archive
- ↳ ICBM
- ↳ ICBM:Tech Support
- ↳ ICBM:Features you would like to see
- ↳ Stirring Abyss
- ↳ Battlestar Galactica Deadlock
- ↳ Battlestar Galactica Deadlock: Tech Support
- ↳ Shadow Empire
- ↳ Field of Glory: Empires
- ↳ Dev Diaries
- ↳ Field of Glory: Empires - Tech Support
- ↳ MOD
- ↳ AAR
- ↳ Field of Glory: Empires Beta Archive
- ↳ FOG Empires Open Beta v.1.3.5
- ↳ Diplomacy Open Beta
- ↳ Command: Modern Operations
- ↳ Astra Exodus
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Afghanistan '11
- ↳ Afghanistan '11: Tech Support
- ↳ Strategic Command WWI
- ↳ Armored Brigade
- ↳ WarPlan
- ↳ Close Combat: The Bloody First
- ↳ Empires Apart
- ↳ Empires Apart PBEM
- ↳ Strategic Command WWII: World at War
- ↳ Aggressors: Ancient Rome
- ↳ Aggressors: Tech Support
- ↳ Aggressors Modding
- ↳ Aggressors AARs
- ↳ March to Glory
- ↳ Tech Support: March to Glory
- ↳ Warhammer 40,000: Sanctus Reach
- ↳ Sanctus Reach After Action Reports (AAR)
- ↳ Sanctus Reach Mods and Scenario Design
- ↳ Sanctus Reach Opponents Wanted
- ↳ Sanctus Reach Tech Support
- ↳ The Operational Art of War IV
- ↳ Check Your 6!
- ↳ Check Your 6!: Tech Support
- ↳ Polaris Sector
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Modders Corner
- ↳ Mare Nostrvm
- ↳ Gettysburg: The Tide Turns
- ↳ Warhammer® 40,000® Armageddon™
- ↳ Warhammer AAR
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Mods and Scenario Design
- ↳ Warhammer Open Beta
- ↳ Carrier Deck
- ↳ Carrier Deck: Tech Support
- ↳ Panzer Corps
- ↳ Panzer Corps Open Beta
- ↳ Panzer Corps Mac Open Beta
- ↳ Panzer Corps : Tech Support
- ↳ Panzer Corps : AAR's
- ↳ Panzer Corps : Scenario Design
- ↳ Panzer Corps 2
- ↳ Close Combat Series
- ↳ Close Combat : Tech Support
- ↳ Close Combat - Gateway to Caen
- ↳ Close Combat - Gateway to Caen : Tech Support
- ↳ Close Combat - Gateway to Caen - Match Making Forum
- ↳ Close Combat - Panthers in the Fog
- ↳ Close Combat - Match Making Forum
- ↳ Close Combat - Panthers in the Fog: Tech Support
- ↳ RuneQuest: Warlords
- ↳ RuneQuest: Warlords - Tech Support
- Classic Games A-Z
- ↳ Airstrike Eagles of WWII
- ↳ Airstrike : Tech Support
- ↳ Alea Jacta Est Series
- ↳ Alea Jacta Est Series : Tech Support
- ↳ Battle Academy
- ↳ Battle Academy : Open Beta
- ↳ Battle Academy : Tech Support
- ↳ Battle Academy : Modders Corner
- ↳ Battle of the Scheldt Beta
- ↳ Battle Academy : Scenario Design
- ↳ Battle Academy : Tournaments & Leagues
- ↳ Battle Academy 2 – Eastern Front
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Battle Academy 2: Modders Corner
- ↳ Battle Academy 2: Scenario Design
- ↳ Battle Academy 2: Tournaments & Leagues
- ↳ Battle Academy 2: AAR
- ↳ Battle of the Bulge
- ↳ Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager
- ↳ Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager : Tech Support
- ↳ Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager : Early Access Beta Forum
- ↳ Campaign Series: Middle East 1948 - 1985
- ↳ Chariots of War
- ↳ Civil War II
- ↳ Civil War II : Tech Support
- ↳ Civil War II : AAR's
- ↳ Command - Modern Air/Naval Operations
- ↳ Commander - Napoleon at War
- ↳ Commander - Napoleon at War : Tech Support
- ↳ Commander - The Great War
- ↳ Commander - The Great War: Tech Support
- ↳ Commander The Great War AAR's
- ↳ Commander the Great War : Mods & Scenario Design
- ↳ Commander the Great War : Opponent Finder
- ↳ Conflict of Heroes
- ↳ Conflict of Heroes : Tech Support
- ↳ Conflict of Heroes : AAR's
- ↳ Match making forum
- ↳ Conquest!
- ↳ Conquest! : Tech Support
- ↳ Decisive Campaigns Series
- ↳ Distant Worlds Series
- ↳ Drive on Moscow
- ↳ Drums of War
- ↳ Drums of War : Tech Support
- ↳ Egypt - Engineering an Empire
- ↳ Egypt - Engineering an Empire : Tech Support
- ↳ España: 1936
- ↳ Fantasy Kommander – Eukarion Wars
- ↳ Fantasy Kommander – Eukarion Wars : Tech Support
- ↳ Field of Glory Digital
- ↳ Field of Glory : Tech Support
- ↳ Field of Glory : Scenario Design
- ↳ Field of Glory : Leagues & Tournaments & Seeking Opponents
- ↳ The FOG Digital League
- ↳ The Slitherine Trophy
- ↳ Field of Glory: League of Extraordinary Gentleman
- ↳ Field of Glory : AAR's
- ↳ FoG PC Beta
- ↳ Old Beta Test
- ↳ Bug Reports
- ↳ Field of Glory Campaigns
- ↳ Flashpoint campaigns: Red Storm
- ↳ Frontline Series
- ↳ Frontline Road to Moscow
- ↳ Frontline: Road to Moscow Tech Support
- ↳ Frontline: Road to Moscow Beta
- ↳ PC Beta
- ↳ Android Beta
- ↳ iOS Beta
- ↳ Frontline: The Longest Day
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Gary Grigsby's War in the East
- ↳ Gary Grigsby's War in the East : Tech Support
- ↳ Gary Grigsby’s War in the West
- ↳ Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941
- ↳ Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 : Tech Support
- ↳ Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941 : AAR's
- ↳ Hannibal: Rome and Carthage
- ↳ Hannibal: Rome and Carthage - Tech Support
- ↳ Hell
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Heroes of Normandie
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Mods and Scenario Design
- ↳ HISTORY™ Great Battles Medieval
- ↳ HISTORY™ Great Battles Medieval : Tech Support
- ↳ HISTORY™ Great Battles Medieval : Modding
- ↳ HISTORY®: Legends of War
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Last Days of Old Earth
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Legion & Legion Gold
- ↳ Legion and Legion Gold: Tech Support
- ↳ Legion Arena & CoM
- ↳ Legions of Steel
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Lock 'n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad
- ↳ Lock 'n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad - Tech Support
- ↳ Magnifico - Da Vinci’s Art of War
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ MILITARY HISTORY™ Commander - Europe at War : General Discussion
- ↳ Commander - Europe at War : Tech Support
- ↳ Commander - Europe at War : Modders Corner
- ↳ Commander Europe at War : AAR's
- ↳ Commander Europe at War : Opponent Finder
- ↳ Commander Europe at War : GS Open Beta
- ↳ Napoleon's Campaigns
- ↳ Pandora - First Contact
- ↳ Pandora : Public Beta
- ↳ Pandora : Tech Support
- ↳ Pandora : Modders Corner
- ↳ Pike & Shot
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Scenario Design
- ↳ After Action Reports
- ↳ Modders Corner
- ↳ Opponents Wanted
- ↳ Pike & Shot : Tournaments & Leagues
- ↳ Piercing Fortress Europa
- ↳ Pride of Nations
- ↳ QVADRIGA
- ↳ QVADRIGA : Tech Support
- ↳ Ravenmark: Scourge of Estellion
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Revolution Under Siege Gold
- ↳ Rise of Prussia Gold
- ↳ Sengoku Jidai: Shadow of the Shogun
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Scenario Design
- ↳ Modders Corner
- ↳ After Action Reports
- ↳ Opponents Wanted
- ↳ Sengoku Jidai: Tournaments & Leagues
- ↳ Scourge of War Gettysburg
- ↳ Scourge of War Series : Tech Support
- ↳ Scourge of War: Waterloo
- ↳ Sovereignty
- ↳ Sovereignty: Tech Support
- ↳ Sovereignty: AAR
- ↳ Sovereignty: Modders Corner
- ↳ Spartan & Gates of Troy
- ↳ Star Hammer
- ↳ Star Hammer: Tech Support
- ↳ Star Hammer: Scenario Design
- ↳ Strategic Command: WWII War in Europe
- ↳ Strategic War in Europe
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Team Assault
- ↳ Match making forum
- ↳ Team Assault : Tech Support
- ↳ THE HISTORY CHANNEL™ Great Battles of Rome
- ↳ THE HISTORY CHANNEL Great Battles of Rome : Tech Support
- ↳ Thirty Years' War
- ↳ Tigers on the Hunt
- ↳ Time of Fury
- ↳ Time of Fury AAR's
- ↳ Time of Fury : Tech Support
- ↳ Time of Fury : Scenario Design & Modding
- ↳ Time of Fury : Open Beta
- ↳ To End All Wars
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Unity of Command
- ↳ Victory and Glory
- ↳ Vietnam '65
- ↳ Vietnam '65 - Tech Support
- ↳ Wars of Napoleon
- ↳ Battleplan Closed Beta
- Online Ordering & Support
- ↳ Online Ordering & Support
- ↳ Site Feedback
- ↳ Invitation system support
- Tabletop Wargaming
- ↳ Field of Glory : Ancient & Medieval Era 3000 BC-1500 AD : General Discussion
- ↳ Rules Questions
- ↳ Scenarios, AAR's, Lists, Modelling and more
- ↳ Historical Scenarios
- ↳ Field of Glory AAR's
- ↳ Army Design
- ↳ Modelling
- ↳ Player Designed Lists
- ↳ Tournaments & Opponents
- ↳ Tournaments
- ↳ Opponent Finder
- ↳ Foreign Language Forums
- ↳ French Speaking Forum
- ↳ Spanish Speaking Forum
- ↳ Italian Speaking Forum
- ↳ German Speaking Forum
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ Field of Glory 3.0 Beta
- ↳ Marketplace
- ↳ Field of Glory : Napoleonic Era 1792-1815 : General Discussion
- ↳ Rules Questions
- ↳ Campaigns
- ↳ Scenarios, AAR's, Lists, Modelling and more
- ↳ Historical Scenarios, Maps, and Orders of Battle (OOB)
- ↳ FoGN After Action Reports (AAR)
- ↳ Army Design
- ↳ Player Designed Lists and Adaptions
- ↳ Modelling/Gallery/Uniforms Questions
- ↳ Tournaments, Demos & Opponents
- ↳ FoGN Community: Opponent Finder, Clubs, Blogs, etc.
- ↳ Foreign Language Forums
- ↳ French Speaking Forum
- ↳ Spanish Speaking Forum
- ↳ Italian Speaking Forum
- ↳ German Speaking Forum
- ↳ Marketplace
- ↳ Field of Glory : Renaissance Wars : General Discussion
- ↳ Historical Scenarios
- ↳ Rules Questions
- ↳ After Action Reports (AAR's)
- ↳ Tournaments
- ↳ Army Design
- ↳ Player Designed Lists
- ↳ Modelling
- ↳ Campaigns
- ↳ Opponent Finder
- ↳ FOGR Update
- ↳ Marketplace
- ↳ Field of Glory : Swords & Sorcery : General Discussion
- ↳ Marketplace
- ↳ Flashpoint campaigns: Red Storm : Tech Support
- ↳ HISTORY™ Ice Road Truckers
- ↳ HISTORY™ Great Empires: Rome
- ↳ HORRIBLE HISTORIES™ Ruthless Romans
- ↳ The Tudors
- ↳ Command - Modern Air/Naval Operations : AAR's
- ↳ Command - Modern Air/Naval Operations : Tech Support
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ España: 1936 : Tech Support
- ↳ Piercing Fortress Europa: Tech Support
- ↳ Tech Support
- ↳ FoGR Lists
- Archive
- ↳ Gary Grisby’s World at War iPad