Great game but has several issues

[timek28]

Hello to all!

I have been a big fan of Panzer Corps ever since it came out. I finished original game, Afrika Corps and now I'm close to finishing Grand Campaigns (in this way or the other). I find game extremely enjoyable to play and very long indeed. However I want to point out few things that I didn't like in the game. They have probably been adressed in other posts, but still I will mention them:

1) Probability generator. It is basically too random. It depends on the type of units involved, but most of the time it is incorrect prediction, to the point of prediction oscilating more than 100%! This is extremely common in air fights, less so in tank to tank combat. This is very frustrating because your best units stay underutilized this way. Which brings me to the second topic...

2) Save - Load - Save fest. Because of random number issue, during most of my games I had to juggle saves and loads in order to save prestige and my best units. This is especially painfull in scenarios where Russians attack in swarms as almost every shot has to count and destroy units. You miss onr shot and you are history. Of course in terms of reality this is completely unreal, as it is easy to be a "general after the battle".

3) Computer spawning units out of nowhere and spawning units with 3-4-5 stars. This is very obvious in several scenarios in 44 GC (Bagaration missions). I basically anigalated every possible Soviet unit, with extreme effort but it still didn't matter. They just kept coming back! And they are all veteran units! When I lose any unit, new unit that I buy goes back to zero stars. Not the case with computer! Also units are spawning in hordes out of nowhere (I basically cut off the rear of attack with few of my units just to see what's going on and saw that there is no contigious flow of Soviet units, it seems as if they came out of single spot albeit spawning). I think if there was a wish from developers to simulate large scalle attacks, it would be more realistic to have train transports transport tanks to a single rally spot and then they should start wave attacking. Instead of the single spot spawns...

and the last point is (not to be to broad this time):

4) Historicaly accuracy and enemy tactics. I played several missions of 44 campain. I didn't count but the amount of enemy units I destroyed is horrendous. Still it doesn't matter. They just keep coming. The loss ratio is probably 50 times higher for Soviets than for me (in terms of unit numbers (out of max 10)). I just cannot believe it was like that in the war. But what I do believe is that computer compensates with brute force for lack of sutable tactics. He is basically doing suciide straight forward attacks untill he losses all units and then spawns new ones and so on... So better computer tactics and less computer units maybe is the better way to go, and make game more fun.

Besides these points the game kicks ass, so keep on doing the good job guys!

Cheers.

[KeldorKatarn]

about the loss ratio... well I consider that to be extremeky historically acurate. because horrendous losses but they still keep coming.. that was exactly the situation the germans faced. at most front sections they were outnumbered 4:1 up to 8:1

[bebro]

re 1 - I agree somewhat, but you get used to it. And while some results are pretty outrageous it works both in your favour and against you, so overall most do just live with it. It has been debated over and over and bottom line was that it's not going to change IIRC. 2 is somewhat related to it. People who like the extra challenge do not reload.

re 3 - I have generally no prob with the AI spawning units. It makes things more interesting, and is not per se a prob of realism. Why would the enemy not throw additional resources into the fight? Why would they need to be green? It might feel unfair that yours cannot be bought with 1-2-3 stars, but IMO that would make everything boring very fast, because getting your core units up in xp and tech is one of the most entertaining factors since PG times.

[timek28]

Thanks for the replies guys.

As far as oscilating probability goes, I have no problem going it one way or another as it is avarage probability anyways. I just don't want it to scilate too much. Say if it says 8-0 in my way, than it should range from 10-0, to 6-2, but not something like 5-5 or 4-6 (rugged defense not included).

Extreme number of enemy units is not problematic. I would just like to see them come by rail transports, or from off map in waves (this happens sometimes). Not just from single spot in town that is nearest to the point they are attacking. At least that would simulate more realistic attack I guess.

And one more thing, too often do enemy units fall to 1 strength when they should clearly be anihalated. This prompts for reaload, as in following turn computer replaces the unit whole. I just find this as sort of AI cheating, but that is normal I guess. Also how much prestige does the AI have? In 44 GC I cannot imagine how much prestife Soviets have... But also if on defense, AI usualy have enough prestige to always spawn 6 units around the last city it is defending just to make things more miserable for you, just in time when you thought you had decisive victory.

[Kerensky]

As a reminder, if the RNG of the game is starting to get under your skin(as it has for some), you can use a 'cheat' to force it to be more accurate:

viewtopic.php?f=121&t=25990

chess
Makes all combats play exactly as they were predicted (unless rugged defense happens)

As for the extreme amount of enemy units and prestige in the late DLC East Campaigns, this is a result of both historical accuracy (the Germans really were THAT overwhelmed) but also an attempt to create challenging content for a playerbase that, by that point has seen a lot of content (base game + AK + 6 DLC).

This is actually another reason we designed the new West Front DLC differently. Apart from historical differences between the fronts dictating smaller battles, we also want to avoid the massive battles of the Eastern Front that were built for people who wanted these really massive CORES and battles hard enough to challenge such a force. I recommend you give them a try, they tend to be a lot less 'zergy'.

[Kamerer]

The combat results, especially air, drove me crazy at first until I learned to manage my units and tactics more skillfully. I did use the cheat (chess) as he points out for air at first. Now that I am more experienced I do not. It's a learning curve.

I recommend you give them a try, they tend to be a lot less 'zergy'.

Oh, somewhere in that thought is a good t-shirt or coffee mug logo, like:

" The Red Army. The original Zerg."

or, maybe an image of six T-34s around a Panther, and:

"Zerg style - Old School."

[timek28]

Thanks for answers once again

Right now I'm playing scenario where you have to simultaniously defend against Soviets and attack Romanians. It is really challanging. I find it pretty fun in a new strategic moment way, but it is frustrating too since Romanians spawn new units and I find that kind of overexagerated. If you had to put almost all your units in defence of Soviets it is kind of unfair to have Romanians grow in strenght whiel you try to attack them with only few of your units while 90% defend Soviets.... But then again if it is historically accurate then nobody wanted to be in German shoes in those days...

[Mordan]

If you want a deep/hard tactic/strategical challenge play MP games against me by joining the league

http://www.panzer-club.com/haupttabelle ... index.html

I'm always looking for very good players to play MP maps.

You will never have a challenge against the AI without the AI "cheating"

[timek28]

Thanks for the invite Mordan. I will surely accompany your league soon.

I just want to add one more thing that bugs me about the game. While I enjoy challanges, I have to notce that lots of times with time running out (last move) you have to conquer last spot or last city but the terrain out there is just terrible. This happens a lot. Like there is a forrest, swamp a river and a hill hexes around the spot you need to conquer. And artilery behind it. Also several infantry units in behind just waiting for you to make a wrong move.

So basically for this you need infantry, hopefully expirienced, but you only have tanks since Soviets are spamming tanks from all the sides, and any infantry unit is waste of space in defensive missions. Sure this is offensive mission but you need lots of tanks, one or two infantry units don't help that much. They usually get anihallated by surprise attacks from Soviet tanks. Genneraly I find very hard trying to use infantry in GC 44 and 45. Soviet SMG infantry is usually easily overpowering grenadires43 or pionires43. Any tips?

So you cannot move your tanks in any of those harsh terrain hexes, despite them being very strong in open terain. It is really frustrating to see this. Sure game should be challanging, but to find out that the only obstacle holding you from DV is crazy terrain configuration is cheap trick imo and just a little bit over the top.

[Szabtom]

an image of six T-34s around a Panther, and:
"Zerg style - Old School."

lol
I would buy that one!

[Grimwar]

I just want to add one more thing that bugs me about the game. While I enjoy challanges, I have to notce that lots of times with time running out (last move) you have to conquer last spot or last city but the terrain out there is just terrible. This happens a lot. Like there is a forrest, swamp a river and a hill hexes around the spot you need to conquer. And artilery behind it. Also several infantry units in behind just waiting for you to make a wrong move.

So basically for this you need infantry, hopefully expirienced, but you only have tanks since Soviets are spamming tanks from all the sides, and any infantry unit is waste of space in defensive missions. Sure this is offensive mission but you need lots of tanks, one or two infantry units don't help that much. They usually get anihallated by surprise attacks from Soviet tanks. Genneraly I find very hard trying to use infantry in GC 44 and 45. Soviet SMG infantry is usually easily overpowering grenadires43 or pionires43. Any tips?

So you cannot move your tanks in any of those harsh terrain hexes, despite them being very strong in open terain. It is really frustrating to see this. Sure game should be challanging, but to find out that the only obstacle holding you from DV is crazy terrain configuration is cheap trick imo and just a little bit over the top.

Hi, I haven't bought the DCL's yet, still engoying the AK campain, but i found out you need artillary to surive. The StuG IIIB is the basic unit of my artillary for most of the eailer years. Hardy, good suport fire and if used in tantum of 2 or 3, caple of taking on tanks in defence, or surporting near-by units.
I found by using 3 StuG IIIB's in a pirimad formation, ie; any Stug is suported by 2 and any unit next to any 2 Stug's has suport fire of 2 artillary. In this way i can move my infantry in half-tracks rapidly forward.

I use the StuG IIIB's in eailer years and upgrade to the StuH 42 later on. The StuH 42 can be switched to a AT unit if required. I also find the high ammo of the Stug's and the mobilty of a good armoured support unit capable if deployed in support of taking on all attacks. Only in a FOG of WAR will the AI attack a supported Stug. And probley will never carry out the attack as the 2 suporting Stug's will have deleted or supressed avaible attack points. (In FOG of WAR i mean as the AI only see's 1 Stug or an inf in a half-track and attacks what it thinks is a lone or weak unit.)

If i'am correct the Stug assult gun type was the most produced mobile armoured and sussufull moible unit in WWII.

Tigers! Give me 2, back to back Stug assult mobile guns any day and with the StuH 42 AT switch, backed up by it's stable mates it will stop most attacks.
The Stug can give the military support fire for blitz stile campains.
With a Hero of just +1 range these assult guns are unreal.

[timek28]

Hi, I haven't bought the DCL's yet, still engoying the AK campain, but i found out you need artillary to surive.

Most definitely. Even more so in DLC. The enemy numbers are enormous, and in order to suppress advancing tanks and infinite infantry you need this. Actually I made a decision at the beginning of Kursk missions to put most of my prestige into Nebelwefer 43 artillery which is by far the best artillery for infantry (30 soft attack). I bought some 8 of them (or converted other artillery to it). This was especially necessary since in the Kurs missions Soviets are completely dug up at every hex. Which is no fun by any means.

Hi, I haven't bought the DCL's yet, still engoying the AK campain, but i found out you need artillary to surive. The StuG IIIB is the basic unit of my artillary for most of the eailer years. Hardy, good suport fire and if used in tantum of 2 or 3, caple of taking on tanks in defence, or surporting near-by units.
I found by using 3 StuG IIIB's in a pirimad formation, ie; any Stug is suported by 2 and any unit next to any 2 Stug's has suport fire of 2 artillary. In this way i can move my infantry in half-tracks rapidly forward.

Honestly I haven't used StuG's that much. In the beginning I was using classic arty up to 18 cm, and when offensive missions of 40, and 41 required fast advancing I used Wurfrahmen 40. It was a very good artillery at the time for fast advancing and blitzkrieg. However in the Kursk mission they do minimal damage to the deeply entrenched infantry so I had to use the artillery with the most powerful soft attack available and that was NbWf43. The problem with NbWf43 is that it is easy pray for enemy aircraft and artillery. And also it takes one turn to deploy. I cannot imagine using StuGs in that situation since it has soft attack of like 10?! But I'm sure it is helpful in early missions, but I'm skeptical about their efficiency in later missions.

The StuH 42 can be switched to a AT unit if required.

This I didn't know. This is great. I know that only soviet SU 122 and maybe one more unit had this feature. I will try this out.

With a Hero of just +1 range these assult guns are unreal.

These are usually quite rare. I'm not sure what move unit should perform to get such hero? Or is it purely random.

One more thing unrelated to previous questions. How come that bunkers and forts are transferable with the trains?! This makes no logic IMO.

[bebro]

I remember reading about train-transportable bunkers somewhere else recently, could be that the bug (that's what it is IMO) has just been spotted recently, or even that it has been introduced in one of the recent patches. Should be changed of course.

[timek28]

Stuh42 proved to be great assoult artillery! I actually didn;t recognize the single hex arty untill now! It is great for quick advances. But you need different artillery type for defence obviously.

[Aloo]

However in the Kursk mission they do minimal damage to the deeply entrenched infantry so I had to use the artillery with the most powerful soft attack available and that was NbWf43.

But you don't have to kill inf with art... all you need to do is suppress them so that you can safely attack them with tanks and/or inf. Same goes for enemy art/AA, you should suppress them and use other resources to attack the units you want to clear out. That's why art with lower SA can still do a very good job.

[Resolute]

One of the most effective strategies in my opinion, when it comes to artillery, is the sole use of forcing surrenders. Nebelwerfer and Wurfrahmen units do good damage versus soft target but the lack of ammo/range (Nebelwerfer) or the low air defence value (Wurfrahmen) do render their usefulness.

[timek28]

Stuh42 proved to be great artillery if known how to use (quick suppresing attack then follow up by Tiger 2's can punch through the enemy lines pretty effectively) . Also it is wise to use different types of artilleries (as well as units) through the whole GC 45. Since there are lots of missions where you first need to attack then defend, unit versatility is necessary. Also lots of AA. Computer sometimes has up to 20 air units at the time :/