Pg 68 "A broken unit MUST attempt to rally in the owning player's first Recovery Phase ..."
Does the word MUST mean that a broken unit does NOT need a general within 4MU when attempting to Rally?
Or, for example, if 3 units of the same Division 'broke' and there is only the Division Commander within 4MU of the 3 units, only 1 Unit will be able to attempt to Rally and that the word MUST means that the Division Commander MUST use his one Cohesion Test ability to Rally a broken unit.
Rallying Broken Units
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MRoberts62
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KendallB
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
It means that the unit has to rally in the player's first recovery phase, if it can't then it is removed.
A commander doesn't need to attempt to rally any unit. In your example of 3 broken units the commander must be within 4MU of one of those units but only can attempt to rally one. The other two are removed.
Also if a broken unit has no commander within 4MU when it is the player's recovery phase then it is removed as no rally attempt is possible.
Additionally if the divisional commander and the corps commander are both within 4MU they can't attempt to rally a unit from broken twice. If the unit fails the first CT it is removed, however if it succeeds, then the other commander may attempt to rally it so it could end up at disordered.
A commander doesn't need to attempt to rally any unit. In your example of 3 broken units the commander must be within 4MU of one of those units but only can attempt to rally one. The other two are removed.
Also if a broken unit has no commander within 4MU when it is the player's recovery phase then it is removed as no rally attempt is possible.
Additionally if the divisional commander and the corps commander are both within 4MU they can't attempt to rally a unit from broken twice. If the unit fails the first CT it is removed, however if it succeeds, then the other commander may attempt to rally it so it could end up at disordered.
Re: Rallying Broken Units
I do not have my copy with me but it seems to me you can only recover one level per turn .however if it succeeds, then the other commander may attempt to rally it so it could end up at disordered.
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deadtorius
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
I believe that was clarified here on the forums you can only recover 1 level of morale per turn, regardless of how many commanders might be standing about. In the above example if you have two or more commanders within range then they each have to attempt to rally any broken units in range.
If you had a wavering and broken unit within 4 MU of a commander he has to attempt to rally the broken unit, he can't choose to ignore the broken boys and go for the wavering unit instead. Likewise if you had two commanders in the same situation one of them would have to attempt to rally the broken unit the other has the option of attempting to rally the wavering unit or not.
If you had a wavering and broken unit within 4 MU of a commander he has to attempt to rally the broken unit, he can't choose to ignore the broken boys and go for the wavering unit instead. Likewise if you had two commanders in the same situation one of them would have to attempt to rally the broken unit the other has the option of attempting to rally the wavering unit or not.
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viperofmilan
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
I don't think this is correct. A single unit can recover more than one level of cohesion in a single turn as long as you have more than one commander/oficer available and that you are successful in each attempt. You have only a single atempt to rally from rout, and this single attempt can only be made in the first friendly recovery phase folowing the rout, but it is not mandatory. A single commander can choose between a wavering and a routing unit when deciding where to expend his single rally attempt.deadtorius wrote:I believe that was clarified here on the forums you can only recover 1 level of morale per turn, regardless of how many commanders might be standing about. In the above example if you have two or more commanders within range then they each have to attempt to rally any broken units in range.
If you had a wavering and broken unit within 4 MU of a commander he has to attempt to rally the broken unit, he can't choose to ignore the broken boys and go for the wavering unit instead. Likewise if you had two commanders in the same situation one of them would have to attempt to rally the broken unit the other has the option of attempting to rally the wavering unit or not.
Kevin
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BrettPT
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
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Last edited by BrettPT on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BrettPT
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
I'm with Kevin and Kendal on this.
Your commanders can pick and chose who they rally/recover, multiple commanders in line of command can make recovery attempts. However if a first rally test is failed for broken troops, they are removed before subsequent attempts to rally them can be made. It is not mandatory to attempt to recover a broken unit before you recover a non-broken unit.
That a player has decisions to make throughout the phases of a turn is a feature of the rules. One of the most important decisions facing a player IMO are which units to try and recover itself in recovery phase. It is always a tough decision to let a broken unit go and remove it from the table, deciding that you would rather take the 5+ chance to bolster another unit!
Boring reasoning and rule references for those interested:
1. The Recovery Tests table on page 70 makes it clear that to rally a broken unit (or recover abandoned artillery) you get "1 attempt only".
2. The "1 attempt only" criteria on the page 70 table stops at broken troops and abandoned artillery. It does not extended to cover normal recovery of cohesion losses.
3. Recovery is actually a Commander action, not a unit action. It is the Commander that attempts to externally recover a unit, not the unit itself that is trying to internally recover. This is not explicity stated in the rules, although it is perhaps implied on page 71: "A Commander may only recover one unit."
If recovery was something a unit does internally (rather than representing a Commander riding over to sort out his troops) then logically every unit would be able to attempt to recovery itself in the recovery phase. They would do this themselves as a 'unit action' and you would not need a Commander (although perhaps his presence might give you a bonus). However this is not the case in the rules. Recovery and rallying his units is something that a Commanders do.
Once you accept that recovery attempts are Commander - and not unit - actions, then the rules become clearer and 2 Commanders (in line of command) making multiple attempts to recover the same unit makes perfect sense. No-where in the rules does it say that you cannot do this. The reference is rule is that "a Commander can only recover one unit" - and not 'a unit can only be recovered once'.
4. The last paragraph on page 71/first on page 72 makes it clear that a failed rally attempt from broken = remove the unit. However the subject of this rule is the timing of rally attempts for routing troops - that these must be made in the first recovery phase or not at all.
Read in the context that the subject of this rule is timing, the words "Broken units must attempt to rally during the first recovery phase..." simply mean that any rally must be in the first recovery phase after the rout, or they don't get to rally at all. You need to read the first sentance with the second ('if the broken unit doesn't attempt to rally, then it is removed').
IMO the rule does not mean that a rally attempt is mandatory for all broken units.
Clear as mud!
Brett
Your commanders can pick and chose who they rally/recover, multiple commanders in line of command can make recovery attempts. However if a first rally test is failed for broken troops, they are removed before subsequent attempts to rally them can be made. It is not mandatory to attempt to recover a broken unit before you recover a non-broken unit.
That a player has decisions to make throughout the phases of a turn is a feature of the rules. One of the most important decisions facing a player IMO are which units to try and recover itself in recovery phase. It is always a tough decision to let a broken unit go and remove it from the table, deciding that you would rather take the 5+ chance to bolster another unit!
Boring reasoning and rule references for those interested:
1. The Recovery Tests table on page 70 makes it clear that to rally a broken unit (or recover abandoned artillery) you get "1 attempt only".
2. The "1 attempt only" criteria on the page 70 table stops at broken troops and abandoned artillery. It does not extended to cover normal recovery of cohesion losses.
3. Recovery is actually a Commander action, not a unit action. It is the Commander that attempts to externally recover a unit, not the unit itself that is trying to internally recover. This is not explicity stated in the rules, although it is perhaps implied on page 71: "A Commander may only recover one unit."
If recovery was something a unit does internally (rather than representing a Commander riding over to sort out his troops) then logically every unit would be able to attempt to recovery itself in the recovery phase. They would do this themselves as a 'unit action' and you would not need a Commander (although perhaps his presence might give you a bonus). However this is not the case in the rules. Recovery and rallying his units is something that a Commanders do.
Once you accept that recovery attempts are Commander - and not unit - actions, then the rules become clearer and 2 Commanders (in line of command) making multiple attempts to recover the same unit makes perfect sense. No-where in the rules does it say that you cannot do this. The reference is rule is that "a Commander can only recover one unit" - and not 'a unit can only be recovered once'.
4. The last paragraph on page 71/first on page 72 makes it clear that a failed rally attempt from broken = remove the unit. However the subject of this rule is the timing of rally attempts for routing troops - that these must be made in the first recovery phase or not at all.
Read in the context that the subject of this rule is timing, the words "Broken units must attempt to rally during the first recovery phase..." simply mean that any rally must be in the first recovery phase after the rout, or they don't get to rally at all. You need to read the first sentance with the second ('if the broken unit doesn't attempt to rally, then it is removed').
IMO the rule does not mean that a rally attempt is mandatory for all broken units.
Clear as mud!
Brett
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Blathergut
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=33214
yes, more than one attempt is fine
yes, a unit can recover more than one level
(We have been playing only one level of gain possible!!
)
yes, more than one attempt is fine
yes, a unit can recover more than one level
(We have been playing only one level of gain possible!!
)
Re: Rallying Broken Units
I have completed the latest errata and sent it off - Although it hasn't yet made it to the website.yes, more than one attempt is fine
yes, a unit can recover more than one level
In this latest errata there are 2 entries/clarifications that change this ....
1) Units can only make ONE recovery attempt each. (This was always the intention).
2) An exceptional commander can choose to re-roll one failed recovery attempt within his 4MU range. (something to improve the value of exceptional commanders who are currently overpriced for their effect).
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Blathergut
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
The PowerPoint Presentation should be updated to show this change. It mentions being able to rally a unit twice.
Re: Rallying Broken Units
Agreed - I'll need Dan Hazelwood to change that.The PowerPoint Presentation should be updated to show this change. It mentions being able to rally a unit twice.
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hazelbark
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Re: Rallying Broken Units
Do you want it changed before you errata comes out?terrys wrote:Agreed - I'll need Dan Hazelwood to change that.The PowerPoint Presentation should be updated to show this change. It mentions being able to rally a unit twice.
Re: Rallying Broken Units
Yes please - The errata should be out in the next couple of days.Do you want it changed before you errata comes out?