Swedes again

[mrbootsthecat]

Hi,
With Arquebusier coming up, Im beginning to get some games in 25MM. In a Swedish Brigade, the "point" base of pike and the regimental gun are considered as markers, and all measurements are taken from thefirst "solid" rank. ( Sorry, but I cant think of a better way of putting it.) IE where the front rank would be if it was a normal 4 shot and two pike unit. In 25MM, the bases are huge and the deployment zone (If playing on a six by four table) stays the same.
Is it acceptable to deploy a Swedish brigade with the four pike and two shot on the deployment line, withthe point pike and the regimental gun over this?

My first game, against another swede, the regimental gunswere in contact with the troops still out of charge range! I dont hink it will be much of an issue as the game goes on as most people are sensible and you just move them out of the way, but I wondered about initial deployment.
Thanks in advance

[kevinj]

Is it acceptable to deploy a Swedish brigade with the four pike and two shot on the deployment line, withthe point pike and the regimental gun over this?

No, but it would be legal to deploy 2 pike and 4 shot that way

[quackstheking]

Gosh - here I disagree with Kevin!!!

You can deploy the Swedish BG with the point pike unit and Regimental Gun over the deployment line. Both those bases are "markers" and as the rules allow all BG's to deploy up to 10" in and also state on p33 that the point pike base is "ignored for all purposes when measuring distances" means it can be over the 10" line.

The rules further clarify that if the point base (or RG base) interferes with any movement, friendly or enemy, it is simply moved back level with the front of the BG.

Don

[nikgaukroger]

The third pike base in a Swedish brigade is most certainly not a marker like a Regimental Gun base is - it counts in all ways, except position within a BG, as a base and I would avoid thinking of it as a marker.

That said Don is right on the positioning, although the rules a possibly not quite as clear as his quote suggests as he has dropped "... to and from the battle groups, and for line of sight." from what the rules say in the bit he quoted.

[quackstheking]

It still means the pike base can deploy over the 10" line though as you measure the 10" to the front of the main BG.

Nik is of course right that it is a base not a marker as it counts for assessing things such as "hits per base" and calculating the BG breakpoint etc.

Don

[kevinj]

Sorry, i was being facetious and pedantic! I was agreeing with Mr B, except that he'd got the numbers of pike and shot transposed.

[quackstheking]

Aha! Humour is a very human emotion we don't have here on Vulcan where I live!!!

Spock (aka Don!)

[mbsparta]

Speaking of Swedes ... I face Gustav's army this coming saturday. Yes, its Cromwell and the NMA in yet another forlorn hope of defeating the Swedes. My last game against Gustav was a close one with my NMA Horse beating Gustav's best. But there simply is no answer for his salvo foot.

At least the armies look cool.

Mike B

[timmy1]

Mike

Alisdair's answer is never to fight the Salvo foot, or do it as late as you can. Deploy your own foot on a gentle hill as far back as you can and make the rest of the field as wide as you can. Shoot the Salvo foot with artillery, kill the horse on the wings and hit the Salvo in the flank. While it is not a sure fire win it gives the best chance. I know, he did my Swedes that way.
Regards
Tim

[mbsparta]

It was another sad day .... Cromwell fell again as the cheesy Finnish Cavalry rode him and his "determined to die" horse into dust. That puts me at 0-18 or so ... with a dead Cromwell in a good 17 of those games.

I am convinced that there is simply no way any of the ECW armies can beat the Swedes in FoG .... My only recourse is to buy some new command figures, some Spanish flags and "Papalize" my troops.

Don Migual
Duc of Tarantula

[bahdahbum]

Do not overestimate the swedeish army . It might be strongh ( I know I use one well did for a year and had had no opportunity to play FOGR for nearly a year now ) but it is brittle as it is costly and lack units in numbers ...

A swedish army can be outgunned by numbers and the they die .

But I will admitt it is not an easy task but never forget, once the impact is done, they fight as all other units .

[ravenflight]

Do not overestimate the swedeish army . It might be strongh ( I know I use one well did for a year and had had no opportunity to play FOGR for nearly a year now ) but it is brittle as it is costly and lack units in numbers ...

A swedish army can be outgunned by numbers and the they die .

But I will admitt it is not an easy task but never forget, once the impact is done, they fight as all other units .

I think echelon tactics are a good one against Swedes. 'Take the impact' with a Great commander (not in the front rank) and rear support from the second unit in echelon. In the JAP before your movement phase move the GC to the second unit in echelon and rinse repeat. Not fool proof by any stretch of the imagination, but it lowers the effect of his ++

I'll let you know how it goes

Unfortunately 'the plan' relies on a few factors which you cannot always affect.

[peterrjohnston]

I am convinced that there is simply no way any of the ECW armies can beat the Swedes in FoG ....

The best way to learn any army's weaknesses is to use it, so I would suggest playing with it, rather than against it. I bet you know all the strengths and weaknesses of NMA, right?

[hazelbark]

The best way to learn any army's weaknesses is to use it, so I would suggest playing with it, rather than against it. I bet you know all the strengths and weaknesses of NMA, right?

EXCELLENT ADVICE

[johngl]

Interesting, Mike. Yesterday, in my third FoGR competition game, I faced Swedes with my Parliamentarians (painted as New Model Army but labelled 1644 Eastern Association so I could use some commanded shot). The Ironsides beat the Swedish horse but one regiment then lost against unprotected commanded shot... however, it was a very close game. The brigades burst through my centre but took heavy losses and my second line continued to shoot them up. At the end two brigades were one base from breaking and being shot at; if they'd both gone the Swedish army would have broken too. As it was, an 8-base musket unit in enclosed fields routed after a series of rotten death rolls, and my army went. On that experience, I don't think it's a lost cause for Cromwell.

However, I'm taking Peter's and Dan's advice and painting Swedes of my own!