Elite infantry regiments?

[stockwellpete]

Might this be considered for the future?

Maybe these elite regiments could be added to regular infantry units in the same way leaders are added now, with an appropriate one-off bonus (effectiveness of the unit goes up to 12, perhaps)? I am thinking of units like the British Guards regiments (Coldtream, Grenadier, Irish, Scots, Welsh); the German (Prussian Guards) and Stosstrupp (stormtroopers later in the war) and the Austro-Hungarian Tyrolean riflemen.

It would add some extra historical detail to the game and could add a new dimension to the planning of various major offensives during the game. They wouldn't need to be "super-soldier" units or anything - just a bit hardier, after all they were just as easily machine-gunned and blasted by artillery as inexperienced formations in the real war.

[Samhain]

I can think of 3 ways of simulating elite units; increasing an infantry stat in the text file, giving that country some more free research at the start of the game or the CEAW method where a regular unit could be upgraded to an elite unit for a price and a waiting period where the unit isn't on the map though if there's a whole new way of simulating an elite unit I think that would be a good bit better.

[stockwellpete]

Yes, they are all good suggestions. I was thinking that maybe each larger power could have a certain number of elite regiments programmed into their armies that the player could add to their regular units at key moments in the campaign. So the British army might have one each of a Coldstream Guard, Grenadier Guard and Scots Guard that they could use and perhaps the effects of that regiment would last until the unit strength fell below 5 or 6 - then it would revert to being a regular unit again. The Russians had a number of Guards regiments as well (e.g. Preobrazhensky).

[majpalmer]

There are two units in the roster that are unused in the game. There is a supply truck unit and a smaller garrison type. I'm still figuring out how to turn them back on, but the stats for the small garrison unit could be adjusted to make it something other than what it is, and you can limit its availability to a handful of countries.

[xriz]

Have you checked out the production_panel.lua file under Data/Scrpits/ui/, there is at least one "entry" you will need to add to activate the button, maybe more spots not sure. Units.lua is pretty easy to understand, you also have to make multiple entries in english.txt in Data/Lang/. In addition you'll probably need all the graphics needed to display a new unit for the game for it not to crash the game, if you want to add a unit.

Here is a snip of code from Data/Scrpits/ui/production_panel.lua, were its obvious you need to make an new entry;

self.stats = self:AdoptWidget(UnitInfoPanel(faction, 6, 315))

local x = 0
local y = 0
--self.firstUnit = 0
for _, protoInfo in ipairs(faction.unit_prototypes) do
proto = game:GetUnitPrototype(protoInfo.prototype)
x = 0
if proto.name == "garrison" then
x = 278
y = 39
end
if proto.name == "infantry" then
x = 407
y = 39
end
if proto.name == "cavalry" then
x = 536
y = 39
end
if proto.name == "armouredcar" then
x = 665
y = 39
end

[stockwellpete]

There are two units in the roster that are unused in the game. There is a supply truck unit and a smaller garrison type. I'm still figuring out how to turn them back on, but the stats for the small garrison unit could be adjusted to make it something other than what it is, and you can limit its availability to a handful of countries.

That is interesting, isn't it? What I would be inclined to do is to re-name the current "garrison" units and call them "reserve divisions" and activate the smaller garrison type as "home defence" militias that can only operate in their own countries (might be hard to mod that bit though). I am not sure how a supply truck unit might be used though. Attached to British infantry divisions were all sorts of extra troop types such as signals, engineers, cyclists, field ambulances, transport etc.

The development of the British army during the war is interesting. Unlike many countries, Britain's army started the war as a volunteer force (First Army) and was first of all supplemented by Kitchener's "new army" (Second Army) in 1915 - then in January 1916 conscription was introduced (Third Army). I suppose all those infantry divisions could be represented by regular army units in the game. But also in 1914 the British army had what was called a Territorial Force and they also had various categories of reserves - Army Reserve (ex-soldiers, 150,000 approx), Special Reserve (65,000) and the National Reserve (200,000+).

I haven't looked at the German army yet but I know they had Landwehr militia-type units, presumably of older men and ex-soldiers.

[stockwellpete]

What I would be inclined to do is to re-name the current "garrison" units and call them "reserve divisions" and activate the smaller garrison type as "home defence" militias that can only operate in their own countries (might be hard to mod that bit though).

I am not sure if I agree myself now. Thinking about it a bit more, these distinctions between regular infantry, reserves and home militias might make sense on the eve of the war in 1914 - but once the war was underway you seemed to just have "infantry" at the front and that was it. Older soldiers may still have acted as garrisons in the home country, and maybe in nearby occupied territories too - and, of course, there would still have been the elite regiments.

So maybe you only need one type of infantry unit in the game (with elite regiments as attachments) and have the game engine just assume that all towns and cities (home territory and those captured) have a certain level of garrison in them that is reflected in the stats. If a city has no regular infantry in it and it is attacked then the enemy unit can just move in as before, the assumption being that it would overpower a garrison (maybe it could suffer some efficiency deterioration or even a default loss of a strength point or two?).

[stockwellpete]

The development of the British army during the war is interesting. Unlike many countries, Britain's army started the war as a volunteer force (First Army) and was first of all supplemented by Kitchener's "new army" (Second Army) in 1915 - then in January 1916 conscription was introduced (Third Army). I suppose all those infantry divisions could be represented by regular army units in the game. But also in 1914 the British army had what was called a Territorial Force and they also had various categories of reserves - Army Reserve (ex-soldiers, 150,000 approx), Special Reserve (65,000) and the National Reserve (200,000+).

Just to develop this a bit more . . . nearly all the regular divisions of the British Army in August 1914 saw active service abroad during the course of 1914. The first-line Territorial reserve divisions mainly went abroad in 1915 along with Kitchener's new Army. Then the second-line territorial divisions went abroad from 1916 (after conscription was introduced). by that time the distinction between "regular" and "reserve" seems to have broken down. There were still some Home Service Divisions that remained in the UK for defensive purposes.

[Aryaman]

The development of the British army during the war is interesting. Unlike many countries, Britain's army started the war as a volunteer force (First Army) and was first of all supplemented by Kitchener's "new army" (Second Army) in 1915 - then in January 1916 conscription was introduced (Third Army). I suppose all those infantry divisions could be represented by regular army units in the game. But also in 1914 the British army had what was called a Territorial Force and they also had various categories of reserves - Army Reserve (ex-soldiers, 150,000 approx), Special Reserve (65,000) and the National Reserve (200,000+).

I haven't looked at the German army yet but I know they had Landwehr militia-type units, presumably of older men and ex-soldiers.

The British army was different from the other armies of WW1 because of the lack of an universal conscription system. The other armies followed the German syste, that I outline here

A conscript served 2 or 3 years (depending on the branch) the he was to spend several years in different reserve organizations. The army was organized around Territorial Army Corps.
The German army had 30 regular Army Corps (24 inf and 6 cav), each of them located in a German region (I Corps East Prussia, II Corps Pommerania...etc) where they trained recruits and in wartimne mobilized reserves.
There were 6 echelons in the army mobilization
1) Professional army, the core of the army, about 800.000 in 1914
2) The Standing army, adding those conscripts in army service that year. 800.000+900.000=1.700.000 (The starting force in August 1914)
3) The Active Reserve, after finished service in the army people stayed in the Active reserve for 5 years. They were mobilized to the end of 1914. They added about 3 million soldiers. 27 new Reserve Army Corps (all infantry) were created.
4) The Landwher, ages from 27 to 39. Only one single Lanwehr Corps was mobilized during the war, in East Prussia in 1914.
5) The Landsturm, ages 39 to 45. No Corps was mobilized during the war.
Landwehr and Landsturm provided replacements to first line units. The system required that any new recruit would be first deployed in a Reserve Corps, and after some retraining be deployed to the First Line units. However Germans were more agressive than other nations in the use of their Reserve Corps, while the French and Russians used them almost exclusively for defensive operations.
6) Ersatz Reserve, created after 1900The Ersatz Reserve was made up of men fit for active duty, but excused for family or economic reasons, and for minor physical defects. These men were liable for Reserve service for 12 years, where they might be called up for 3 annual training sessions. In practice only a small number of these men underwent any training before 1914. Men unfit for war service were still liable for service in the Landsturm from the age of 17-45.

[stockwellpete]

The British army was different from the other armies of WW1 because of the lack of an universal conscription system. The other armies followed the German syste, that I outline here

A conscript served 2 or 3 years (depending on the branch) the he was to spend several years in different reserve organizations. The army was organized around Territorial Army Corps.
The German army had 30 regular Army Corps (24 inf and 6 cav), each of them located in a German region (I Corps East Prussia, II Corps Pommerania...etc) where they trained recruits and in wartimne mobilized reserves.
There were 6 echelons in the army mobilization
1) Professional army, the core of the army, about 800.000 in 1914
2) The Standing army, adding those conscripts in army service that year. 800.000+900.000=1.700.000 (The starting force in August 1914)
3) The Active Reserve, after finished service in the army people stayed in the Active reserve for 5 years. They were mobilized to the end of 1914. They added about 3 million soldiers. 27 new Reserve Army Corps (all infantry) were created.
4) The Landwher, ages from 27 to 39. Only one single Lanwehr Corps was mobilized during the war, in East Prussia in 1914.
5) The Landsturm, ages 39 to 45. No Corps was mobilized during the war.
Landwehr and Landsturm provided replacements to first line units. The system required that any new recruit would be first deployed in a Reserve Corps, and after some retraining be deployed to the First Line units. However Germans were more agressive than other nations in the use of their Reserve Corps, while the French and Russians used them almost exclusively for defensive operations.
6) Ersatz Reserve, created after 1900The Ersatz Reserve was made up of men fit for active duty, but excused for family or economic reasons, and for minor physical defects. These men were liable for Reserve service for 12 years, where they might be called up for 3 annual training sessions. In practice only a small number of these men underwent any training before 1914. Men unfit for war service were still liable for service in the Landsturm from the age of 17-45.

Interesting stuff. I think it bears out the idea that once the war was well underway then there were just two basic infantry types - frontline units and home defence units. And if home defence is to be abstracted out of the game (I am not convinced it should be at the moment) then that would just leave one type of infantry unit to be built in the game.

One of the developers has said that the two current types - Regular and Garrison - have been chosen for "variety", which is something that I can understand, but maybe it is not so historically accurate? So, if you could build only one type of infantry unit then maybe a more rigorous use of the "efficiency" and "quality" numbers" would offer a way of giving greater variety. Instead of units starting at default 10 for efficiency, what if they start at 5 and can only start moving up to 10 when they have been in contact with the enemy? What if only volunteer units start the war in 1914 at quality 10 and conscripted troops start at 8 and can move up to 10 once they make contact with the enemy? And maybe conscripted troops should decline in quality each year the war progresses (this is linked to economic deterioration at the moment, which is OK too).

My other idea is to allow a certain number of elite regiments to each power that could be attached to the regular infantry units (thereby increasing efficiency +2 - until that unit falls below 5 strength points when the efficiency drops -2 automatically). Obviously the Guards or stormtrooper regiments would represent only a small part of an individual "regular infantry unit".

[xriz]

My other idea is to allow a certain number of elite regiments to each power that could be attached to the regular infantry units (thereby increasing efficiency +2 - until that unit falls below 5 strength points when the efficiency drops -2 automatically). Obviously the Guards or stormtrooper regiments would represent only a small part of an individual "regular infantry unit".

You realize that for the most part that is what commanders do in the game, only they effect Attack, Defense, shock and assault values, which will yield similar effects in the game. Though I can understand that the commanders don't have dramatic effects, a +1 attack on units with 14 defense doesn't give spectacular results, though it does make a difference.

For Modding purposes, you could cut the/a commanders range down to 0, (from most being 2) and bump up the stats the commander gives to get bigger results, like +4 ground attack, and with a range of 0, only the unit assigned the commander will get the bonus and just rename the commander to "Elite Regiment".

Adding commanders is a lot more straight forward then trying to figure out how the game effects a individual units efficiency for modding purposes, I haven't seen anything that allows you to effect a units efficiency, just how fast all units it get it back.

[stockwellpete]

I think it would have to be the developers who used the attachment idea for elite regiments if they think it is any good (probably isn't anyway). It was a just a way of bringing more historical realism and detail into the game. I think a good little mod woulld be to change the names of the two types of infantry unit to "corps" and "division" as you have explained in the "Elite Infantry units" thread.

[Aryaman]

Interesting stuff. I think it bears out the idea that once the war was well underway then there were just two basic infantry types - frontline units and home defence units. And if home defence is to be abstracted out of the game (I am not convinced it should be at the moment) then that would just leave one type of infantry unit to be built in the game.

One of the developers has said that the two current types - Regular and Garrison - have been chosen for "variety", which is something that I can understand, but maybe it is not so historically accurate? So, if you could build only one type of infantry unit then maybe a more rigorous use of the "efficiency" and "quality" numbers" would offer a way of giving greater variety. Instead of units starting at default 10 for efficiency, what if they start at 5 and can only start moving up to 10 when they have been in contact with the enemy? What if only volunteer units start the war in 1914 at quality 10 and conscripted troops start at 8 and can move up to 10 once they make contact with the enemy? And maybe conscripted troops should decline in quality each year the war progresses (this is linked to economic deterioration at the moment, which is OK too).

My other idea is to allow a certain number of elite regiments to each power that could be attached to the regular infantry units (thereby increasing efficiency +2 - until that unit falls below 5 strength points when the efficiency drops -2 automatically). Obviously the Guards or stormtrooper regiments would represent only a small part of an individual "regular infantry unit".

In fact, there were big differences among Frontline units. They were classfied according to their capabilities, the best units assembled for offensive operations in some corps, while other corps in quiet sectors had low cquality units. Apparently garrisons represent "Divisions" (probably better weak corps) and Infantry units those offensive corps.
IMO one big problem of the game if that it doesn´t represent the differences in quality of the troops of the sweveral countries involved but for the level of technology, efficiency would be a much better way to represent non tech differences.

[stockwellpete]

In fact, there were big differences among Frontline units. They were classfied according to their capabilities, the best units assembled for offensive operations in some corps, while other corps in quiet sectors had low cquality units. Apparently garrisons represent "Divisions" (probably better weak corps) and Infantry units those offensive corps.
IMO one big problem of the game if that it doesn´t represent the differences in quality of the troops of the sweveral countries involved but for the level of technology, efficiency would be a much better way to represent non tech differences.

Yes, there are two variables that might used a bit more - quality and efficiency. And then you might introduce a differential to the rate of recovery of efficiency depending on the quality of the troops too. The danger might be that it gets too complicated - at the moment things are very clear even though there are limitations with regards to historical accuracy it seems.