Is "On the Beaches" MP too tough for the Germans?

[johntindall]

Hi everyone - Merry Christmas!

A group of friends and I have been running a tournament with "On the Beaches" (which we've renamed "Warmington-on-Sea" from the BBC comedy "Dad's Army" ).

Currently the Germans have lost six games straight. We've tried broad advance, centre thrust and flanks. Every time the loss has been due to exceeding the 20 casualty limit. Most flags captured has been three.

We think the Germans need some help in order to balance the scenario more, particularly when you compare it to the "D-Day linkup" scenario in the Normandy campaign, where the invading Allies have Medic, air support and naval bombardment.

Have other players experienced the same in the MP game? Pip - how would you like to progress this?

I see that Gortwillsaveus has been the only person to win as the Allies in the "Christmas surprise" tournament (twice, actually!), so would you be interested in a private challenge as the Germans to see if experience will tip the scales?

[kingt]

I don't believe it is. It depends largely on how you attack and how much damage you can inflict from the first hours of the battle. Sure, it's going to be bloody because it's a beach landing, but it can be won by the Germans as well.

[gortwillsaveus]

First off,...us "Yanks" have no idea, nor have ever seen "Dad's Army"

Secondly: When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it a mistake, since I find just the opposite true. Actually "On the Beaches" is one of my least favorite,...so maybe I'm not giving it a fair chance,...or maybe, I just don't know what I'm doing in that map. I think the latter is probably the most true.

Third: "Christmas Surprise" is one of my favorites. Actually, it looks like I'll win a 3rd game in that tournament as Allies
I understand why you are surprised that I've won twice. When I first played this scenario,...I lost every time as Allies,..and I thought it was unbalanced.
However,....I now use certain tactics which help me win a majority of the time as Allies.
This is also true for Desert Fort,..I could never win as German,...but now,..I win most of the time as Germans.

Fourth: I'd love to play,..(as long as it's not "On the Beaches"). Setup a game and let me know the password.

[johntindall]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Just wanted to emphasise that the difficulties we're having is with the multiplayer version, where the German casualty limit is 20, whereas the campaign limit (against the AI) is 40 and therefore much easier.

So if anyone thinks they can win as Germans, I'll post two challenges as Allies now, with password "dadsarmy" and I'll report back as to what happened.

[kingt]

Yup, we're talking about the multiplayer version. I took one game.

[pipfromslitherine]

Totally OT, but... It's an interesting question about naval support. I would guess that the designers would assume that most of any Axis naval support would be tied up trying to keep the Royal Navy away from the landings. IIRC from my limited reading on the subject many historians think that, even with German air superiority, the naval imbalance would have made Sealion a tall order anyway.

Always cool to see people running tournaments!

Cheers

Pip

[johntindall]

Might have found a glitch, Pip. Playing a friend where I was the Germans, I managed to capture 5 flags through a combination of careful play and luck. Yay! Game over, right? No, turn passed back to the Allies. They recaptured a flag and caused another couple of casualties. Next turn I got it back = 5 flags for a second time. Game over? No...not yet...

Turn went back to Allies who did not recapture, so I held 5 flags for ALL of his turn. Must be game over now, surely? No. In the German turn, I was retreating an Engineer squad that was spotted and killed. 20 casualties. Game over? Yes. Immediately. Allied win.

So why did the Germans meet their victory conditions twice only to have it denied them? Or have I misunderstood the victory conditions?

Pip - I have a screenshot available which I can email you if you would like it (just PM me with preferred address).

[tmoj2000]

NO

I've won many times as the Germans

The only problem I see is that the game does not end when the Germans capture the required number of flags, but goes on till the last turn.... But even with that , I consider that the scenario slightly advantages the Germans

[johntindall]

Thanks tmoj2000 and others. Particularly for clearing up the issue about the 5 flags. I'll keep trying.

[johntindall]

Quick update on my game against kingt: he's blitzing me. 8 turns in and his superb fire & movement have devastated Dad's Army and captured 5 flags already. for the loss of only 7 units. Obviously I still have a lot to learn about effective infantry tactics!

Random27 has also signed up to teach me the error of my ways (!) so I suspect it won't be long before I have to say (yet again) that yes, I was wrong.

Cheers for now.

[johntindall]

kingt won decisively. With 5 turns to go he had all 8 flags and killed all but one of my units, whereas I had killed 16 kills of his. This is enough to convince me that I was wrong, and the scenario is very winnable by the Germans. The keys are, I think, a lot of BA experience and careful tactical play.

The initial victory conditions need amendment, though. The Germans needs 5 flags "within 20 turns" but this is not coded and the game continues regardless of how many flags the Germans capture. Pip is aware and will fix this sometime.

So I cheerfully admit I was wrong and am looking forward to getting better at this outstanding game.

[gortwillsaveus]

and you've inspired me to see if I can dig up an episode of "Dad's Army" over here in the States,....my wife watches "Doc Martin", "Rosemary and Thyme", "Kingdom", and other such British shows,...how hard could it be.

[johntindall]

Be warned though, gort. "Dad's Army" is typical British self-deprecating sitcom humour and may not appeal to today's audiences. Especially in the colonies like America.

[pipfromslitherine]

Youtube is full of tasty titbits from the show, to get a feel for it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V3SqxUomwk

Who knows, if we create a resurgence in popularity then someone might pitch a US-friendly remake starring Brad Pitt and Bill Paxton (because he has the "Doomed!" line down already ).

Cheers

Pip

[gortwillsaveus]

Well,....not sure we need to remake "Dad's Army",..since "the colonies" already have a great show,...nothing compares to "Hogan's Heroes".

[k9mike]

Good one John! My childhood fave...