GJS'44 Campaign Main Thread - Final June 16th 1944 Tournamen

[Brummbar44]

Mac - your 'training exercise' explanation does not really hit the hot buttons. Should local BG commanders and or 'high' commanders' play maps pre formal battles? Are you now endorsing such an approach?

Something out of place? By when in terms of moves? 'Looks out of place'? By what criteria? I am not trying to create or engender a rule based game, but rather to reinforce and encourage a logical player based war game.

I'm not advocating practice maps, I'm saying this one was a mistake (mistakes happen) and we hope to avoid that in the future...but it is what it is.

In terms of 'out of place' players are knowledgeable enough I think to recognize when something doesn't look right...it's simply a matter of letting the GM know before things get underway if there is a concern. If there is something wrong, it can get fixed before play gets underway...if nothing is wrong then, no harm done just a slight delay to the start.

Everyone needs to understand that this is a player effort all around. We as fans make this game happen, there is no monetary compensation here, it is strictly for our own enjoyment...let's try to make if fun for everyone and not get caught up in arguments...it is after all a work in progress. I would appreciate if everyone keep that in mind when it comes to being vociferous on a position.

Thanks.

In the meantime, it looks like leci and Gort have dropped out...I'm not sure of the status of the Axis side now? Is there a volunteer to take command?

[jcb989]

I don't feel I'm being critizied. but, I'll do the best I can to stop sooner, or, express more confidently that something might be wrong.
I questioned it on turn 1 but not completely, thinking perhaps things were how they should be (which, until a GM ruling, might have become the case which would have also been fine by me anyhow).

Sorry to see Gort come and go in a heart beat, and for Leci to drop out, if he is in fact deciding to do so.
Even if some drops are from getting fed up, people also have real lives and disruptions to deal with too.
I for one am not bothered too much by the dialogs or issues, some of that is inherent with trying to play-to-win-by-the-rules in sort of a Beta Test environment. Although I am more easy-going and will except the final GM resolutions without much arguement because I think the concept of what we're trying to do is a great thing. I hope as time goes along we can swap people in and out as needed for players if people feel they need to leave, but to keep this thing going for awhile, I know it must be a fair amount of work/time investment for Jon in particular.

[leci]

Mac - I might have 'dropped out' but still have a view. Your comments re 'underway' make no sense. I hardly think six turns constitute a relevant interpretation of 'gets underway' i.e. as you have expressed it. Six turns out of >20 to my mind seems to indicate a credible game in progress.

[leci]

Jcb - no reflection on you at all.

[Brummbar44]

I'm talking in future tense.

If, in the future, players feel that something is wrong, let someone know so that the game doesn't get 6 turns in and become a problem later.

This is not a critique of anyone involved in the current situation, we are just trying to establish guidelines for the future.

[leci]

That's the point Mac! 6 turns in? Please!

[kingt]

Mac - I might have 'dropped out' but still have a view. Your comments re 'underway' make no sense. I hardly think six turns constitute a relevant interpretation of 'gets underway' i.e. as you have expressed it. Six turns out of >20 to my mind seems to indicate a credible game in progress.

That's the point Mac! 6 turns in? Please!

Again, I have filed the complaint as soon as I have seen it. How would I have been able to actively stop the battle before it reached turn 6 with the players engaged in it? What if jcb989 wouldn't have asked questions / provided screenshots? Or suppose I were asleep and they'd have finish the battle. I'd still have objected to it once I realized that something was off in any of those cases no matter the result, because it wouldn't have been played according to the rules.

The tactics / progress / kills / outcome / next day's battle(s) are all heavily related to starting positions and kind of battle for each battle, not just this one.

Since you have tested the map yourself, you could have mentioned the flag issue in advanced knowing that this was settled to be a ME after a rather long debate on rule 4.33 from a few weeks back.

[leci]

Re rules, and an argument as to many of these already?... Someone? Something is wrong? Problem later....?

If you/we want and need rules, at least define such rules!

[Brummbar44]

It was caught when it was caught...again, I refer to the different time zones.

The Allied player in the Caen battle might have noticed something was amiss in the first turn or two but no guidelines were established...they are now.

The scenario was not set as it was declared, a re-play is required...the decision is made.

The only person who still voices an opposition is the person who quit. If you have stepped aside leci then your posts serve no purpose other than to disrupt the campaign...please desist from posting unless you have something more constructive to offer. Unless of course, you wish to rejoin the campaign?

[leci]

Kingt - I am not really involved, but the German players just tend to play.

In other words the tactics and game play are the focus.......

If I missed something.......kick me

If you guys missed something across 6 turns.......

I have resigned, but I would suggest you all just play a war game....... Repeat, a 'game'...!

[leci]

Mac - message rec'd. No more stuff from me.

[kingt]

If you guys missed something across 6 turns.......

You're so no getting the point that the game advanced to that turn by the time I submitted the posts on the Allied thread, here and sent the emails. It doesn't matter what point the game would have gotten to, whether it would have ended, or whether we would have won by a large margin. In all these theoretical scenarios, I'd still file the complaint.

[Brummbar44]

Ok, folks, I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.

In trying to move forward...is there anyone from the Axis side who

1) Wants to volunteer as Axis commander?
2) Is willing to fight the Caen battle now that we've lost Gort?

No rush as we need to wait on Jon to reset the map...but please think about it and let us know.

Thanks all.

[GottaLove88s]

Gentlemen, Time gentlemen please...

Mac & I have discussed and updated the GJS'44 Rules & Regs in the usual place, ie. here -> viewtopic.php?f=87&t=38844&p=363656#p363656

New stuff is highlighted in red, on...
2.2 Aerial recons
4.3-4.35 As previously announced on swaps/reliefs, passthrough, and how to appropriately deal with the Allies having 5 uberpara BGs that can land and win in any sector
7.4-7.43 Giving GMs the freedom to deploy BGs from their approximate direction of approach, rather than being too specific
7.55-7.59 Dealing with Map Errors so the past 24 hours can never happen again
10.1-10.4 Ethics. I never expected to have to add this, but apparently I do and it's important...

We're not putting these up for a vote because they're important and we need to move on.
At this stage, anyone who cannot agree just to play and have fun, may leave with our good wishes...

HOWEVER...

[GottaLove88s]

However...

It occurs to me, from where I'm looking, which is admittedly quite far, that we don't have much of a campaign any more...

On the Axis side

Leci (who I found good, and a mostly reasonable commander, appears to have reached the end of his tether and) has resigned
Gortwillsaveus (who I know to be an able player, organiser of great tournaments, and a truer gentleman than most of us) has observed how we appear to play and ran for the hills
K9mike (forgive me for this mate but) is desperately unhappy and wants to start a cleaner, smaller tournament with folks who will just play the game
Morge4 (forgive me this too, Al, but) has seen it all before and I suspect I know his view
Alex0809 is relatively new to MP, so got his 857/346 (the strongest German BG of June 6th) ripped apart on Gold beach and then totally annihilated on June 7th
Mlazar I don't know. Did he win versus the paras? Have the Germans actually won a single meaningful game so far?

I'm in southeast Asia, so I'm well out of the loop.

But somehow, the surviving players who are actually still interested in continuing (and mostly I'm looking at the Allies here) need to find some friends who will be happy to play Germans against them... Because my impression is that circumstances have left the current Germans bored of our "more forum, less play" so far... And when they finally managed to get an excellent player who might have helped them actually win their first meaningful game, he was scared off...

Mac & KingT - Sorry guys, I'm going to have to leave this one with you please. We need a German Commander, and we need motivated German players. Also, we need people who are good. Not just names in boxes. Some might currently be Allied players. And the German commander might even be called Leci or Gort. It's hard to know. But without them, we can't play...

Mac, I'm really sorry you landed in this... and I really appreciate everything you're doing in impossible circumstances...

Goodnight folks. My jetlag is wearing off... ZZzzzz...

[Brummbar44]

We're not putting these up for a vote because they're important and we need to move on.

...and Jon needs to get on with his vacation!

Thanks Jon for your efforts.

[GottaLove88s]

We're not putting these up for a vote because they're important and we need to move on.

...and Jon needs to get on with his vacation!

Thanks Jon for your efforts.

Bigger thanks to you Mac. You're doing an amazing job and I really appreciate it.
I hadn't expected this disruption... And you're a star for even attempting to manage it.
Let's hope the lads can find two even teams, with two even commanders, and we can all just get on and PLAY.

[mlazar]

I am happy to play the games that result from the strategic/operational decisions (as the Germans). I seem to win about 1/2 the games I play on the open invitation stuff against the regular players (80% against newbies). I should have been a patient player for my attack on the Paras. I actually should have waited a day to start (since I was overwhelmed at work and brain dead). Any way I am losing that game against Random27 (and losing badly). I would like to continue as the Germans, but only as a BG commander. No time to work on the big picture.

[k9mike]

Guys: I didn't originally join this tournament because I had been tied up with personal issues that are inappropriate to discuss here.

However,....when k9mike and leci asked me,....I felt I could squeeze this in on one condition:
- That I would play games all the way through, and not have to spend a lot of time on the forums.

I've played all of you at one time or another in MP games and enjoyed every one of them!
jcb989: You really made me laugh last night with comments we made to each other as we played.

Sorry guys,..but I should have told leci and k9mike that while I appreciate the request, I just can't play at this time. That was my fault entirely.
So,...while regret to have to do this,...I have to bow out.

Gort...Very, very sorry...And you know this John. Never meant for any of this to happen. Really just wanted you back in the saddle and playing with us. We had alot of fun in the old one before it got sour. I will be cooresponding with you...But, as on now...I to am done with this. I am done. I wont be playing anymore of the current campaign, as it is too much like how the other one got. Sorry guys...thats just me.
Mike

[Brummbar44]

I am happy to play the games that result from the strategic/operational decisions (as the Germans). I seem to win about 1/2 the games I play on the open invitation stuff against the regular players (80% against newbies). I should have been a patient player for my attack on the Paras. I actually should have waited a day to start (since I was overwhelmed at work and brain dead). Any way I am losing that game against Random27 (and losing badly). I would like to continue as the Germans, but only as a BG commander. No time to work on the big picture.

Thanks mlazar, glad you are still aboard! The Axis have a solid player in you. I can understand not wanting to take on overall command.

k9mike and Gort, roger out to you. Sorry if it wasn't up to your expectations...but with games at this level, some rough spots are bound to occur. Not sure how rough it went in the first iteration and maybe you are justly internet fatigued from it but I fear you might be selling this one a little short. But to each their own.

That being said, the Axis are down another player...have no command...and the whole thing is starting to flounder. Any suggestions/volunteers to keep this thing going?