Joe v. Morris Round II (Joe's AAR)

[Morris]

So if e. g. Morris wants to minimize the risk of Sealion as the Allies then he doesn't launch the Dyle offensive and instead uses the British forces in England. France will most likely fall earlier because of this, but that is a price you have to pay. So whether to be offensive or defensive with the British in 1939/1940 is often determined by how well you think your opponent can take advantage of bad luck on your part. E. g. is he skilled enough to succeed with a Sealion?

If some pbem's result is considered as the prove of game balance , the player has to use conservative & traditional statetgy ,not use something creative & new . If so , even if 5 fair turn in 1939 , late severe winter in 1941 ....etc are all no problem .

[Morris]

The different AAR's we see prove that difference in playing strategy has more effect on the outcome than the inherent imbalances in the game. We have just read from some claiming that in GS v2.1 the Axis have little chance of winning. Then this AAR is proof that a great Axis strategy can beat almost any Allied player. Even the best like Morris.

1 This AAR is not proof that a great Axis strategy can beat almost any Allied player .

2 I am not the best

3 Joe's Axis strategy is great , but it execute well only on the base of the following element :
a Allies early edition of Dyle plan
b good weather support
c top skill of execute ability ( few players has the ability like Joe )
d many allies mistakes !

I believe any other player could not copy Joe's sucess even if they has the same strategy ! Anyone do not agree with me , I will always be here waiting for you ! ( Come on ! I will AAR everyturn to show how is the difference ! Good luck !)

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Show me three good players who believe that the Axis has the best chance to win.

I do. That's one. I all my games with the Axis in GS v2.1 I've done better than the historical result and better than I did in GS v2.0 . The Axis are much more potent in GS v2.0 and if the Allied player makes a mistake they can be punished hard.

E. g. I always get Leningrad in 1941 and almost always get to Stalingrad and the Caucausus in 1942 (if I go for the south). I don't see how the Russians can stop that.

I played the Allies against people like Ronnie and was pushed very hard. My Russians weren't very strong in the 1942 winter to push the Germans back. I feel the Germans can often seriously damage the Russians in 1942.

Joerock crushed a great player like Ronnie being the Axis. To win with the Allies now you have to avoid making mistakes and patiently wait for the Axis offensives to run out of steam.

In GS v2.0 I barely lost to Joerock as the Axis. In GS v2.1 the Germans are stronger than in GS v2.0. Joe has improved since then so I expect he would be able to beat me again, but that's another matter.

[Morris]

Show me three good players who believe that the Axis has the best chance to win.

I do. That's one. I all my games with the Axis in GS v2.1 I've done better than the historical result and better than I did in GS v2.0 . The Axis are much more potent in GS v2.0 and if the Allied player makes a mistake they can be punished hard.

E. g. I always get Leningrad in 1941 and almost always get to Stalingrad and the Caucausus in 1942 (if I go for the south). I don't see how the Russians can stop that.

I played the Allies against people like Ronnie and was pushed very hard. My Russians weren't very strong in the 1942 winter to push the Germans back. I feel the Germans can often seriously damage the Russians in 1942.

Joerock crushed a great player like Ronnie being the Axis. To win with the Allies now you have to avoid making mistakes and patiently wait for the Axis offensives to run out of steam.

In GS v2.0 I barely lost to Joerock as the Axis. In GS v2.1 the Germans are stronger than in GS v2.0. Joe has improved since then so I expect he would be able to beat me again, but that's another matter.

Mr Cybvep asked for three , but you only list Joe & yourself .
Who is another ?
BTW , I don't think Joe believe Axis has great chance to win . Joe performed well in Axis games does not mean he believe Axis has great chance . He only got great chance whenever the Allies makes enough mistakes like me in this pbem .

[Morris]

Show me three good players who believe that the Axis has the best chance to win.

I do. That's one. I all my games with the Axis in GS v2.1 I've done better than the historical result and better than I did in GS v2.0 . The Axis are much more potent in GS v2.0 and if the Allied player makes a mistake they can be punished hard.

E. g. I always get Leningrad in 1941 and almost always get to Stalingrad and the Caucausus in 1942 (if I go for the south). I don't see how the Russians can stop that.

I played the Allies against people like Ronnie and was pushed very hard. My Russians weren't very strong in the 1942 winter to push the Germans back. I feel the Germans can often seriously damage the Russians in 1942.

you got this record just because you never play Axis against Morris

[Cybvep]

Here is what Joe said:

I do agree with your comments on game balance. Playing the Axis is harder, but it's also more fun for the majority of the game if you are able to keep the initiative. I feel that evenly matched players have a fairly even chance to win, regardless of side.

Therefore, Joe believes that both sides have an equal chance to win if players have a similar skill level.

Here is what Stauffenberg said:

Most say the Allies have the best chance, but some feel the Axis have the best chance.

Therefore, he claims that some players believe that the Axis has a greater chance of achieving victory. We now know that he includes himself in this group. Who else? Pretty much all comments I read on this forum indicate that while the Axis definitely can win, it's easier to win when playing the Allies.

[Morris]

Here is what Joe said:

I do agree with your comments on game balance. Playing the Axis is harder, but it's also more fun for the majority of the game if you are able to keep the initiative. I feel that evenly matched players have a fairly even chance to win, regardless of side.

Therefore, Joe believes that both sides have an equal chance to win if players have a similar skill level.

Here is what Stauffenberg said:

Most say the Allies have the best chance, but some feel the Axis have the best chance.

Therefore, he claims that some players believe that the Axis has a greater chance of achieving victory. We now know that he includes himself in this group. Who else? Pretty much all comments I read on this forum indicate that while the Axis definitely can win, it's easier to win when playing the Allies.

Joe is polite & gentleness ! but Borger seems a little bit over confident . ( I am sorry If My words was inpolite )

[Crazygunner1]

I think it's easy to win with axis...you can probably put supermax there as well.

Thats 2 more

[Morris]

I think it's easy to win with axis...you can probably put supermax there as well.

Thats 2 more

You said you are the one , you are the one , Although Max is super , we have to hear from himself .
Any way , comparing with thousands of players , 4 is a very very small percentage !

[Cybvep]

I think it's easy to win with axis...you can probably put supermax there as well.

Thats 2 more

The question is whether you think that the Axis has a greater chance to win than the Allies?

Personally, I think that it's very very hard to defend that statement. Naturally, you will lose when you are pitted against a better player, but if the skill level is similar, I think that the Allies have a greater chance to win. Note that I'm talking about winning the war (which is irrelevant from the gameplay perspective), but winning the game.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I think we should stop hijacking this AAR. The end result is that GS v2.1 is frozen and we won't alter the game balance. It doesn't matter who believes what.

[joerock22]

I think we should stop hijacking this AAR. The end result is that GS v2.1 is frozen and we won't alter the game balance. It doesn't matter who believes what.

I don't really mind. What this discussion means to me is that no matter what you do, you can never please everyone. People will always have different viewpoints. So let's just play the game we have and have some fun.

[Cybvep]

So... when can we expect the next update?

[Kragdob]

I think it's easy to win with axis...

I would like you to show me when you have free slot - I lost only once as Allies in my first Allies game. Never happened again.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

So... when can we expect the next update?

You mean when we will release the bugfix? The answer is that it depends on which bugs are being reported. So far it seems we don't get new bugs incoming on a regular basis. If that continues then we can release the bugfix soon. It will probably be at the same time we will offer the ZIP file update to GS v2.1 to those who can't use the installer.

We don't know anything about possible future plans for GS. We spent a lot of effort getting GS v2.1 out and it's time to just enjoy not having to code something every day. So I think we deserve time off from development.

It could be fun if e. g. Slitherine could make a CeaW 2 using the game engine used for CTGW released by Lordz. One big problem with CeaW is that it has reached it limits to what we can alter. E. g. getting a dynamic map resolution should have been an important update. The same with expanding the map and unit types. Adding some diplomacy to the game could be fun etc. I can't see that happening with the CeaW engine. I don't know the plans Slitherine and Lordz have so I can't say if this will become a reality or not.

[ncali]

As for game balance, I think it would be better to wait a while and then take a poll or gather results of GS 2.1 games before making any conclusions. The game went through a lot of changes in development and was not finally released all that long ago considering how long it takes to play a game all the way through. If someone is itching to know how people feel about game balance, they might step in to collect the data. I think Diplomaticus was originally going to do it before he got busy?
See thread = viewtopic.php?f=18&t=35436

As for me, I'm not sure yet and don't have any strong feelings about balance. Very tentatively, I would say that all things being equal, the Allies have a slightly greater chance to win. But it's not insurmountable or a sure thing.

[joerock22]

So... when can we expect the next update?

If you mean the next turn, very soon. I have a Morris turn sitting in my email!

[Cybvep]

You mean when we will release the bugfix?

No, I meant the next update of the AAR .

If you mean the next turn, very soon. I have a Morris turn sitting in my email!

Cool. I'm waiting eagerly for it . In the meantime, I will go back to re-watching Battlestar Galactica... What a great show it was, during its first two seasons. I cannot believe how crappy it became later on and wtf the authors were thinking when they came up with that terrible ending.

[joerock22]

Cool. I'm waiting eagerly for it . In the meantime, I will go back to re-watching Battlestar Galactica... What a great show it was, during its first two seasons. I cannot believe how crappy it became later on and wtf the authors were thinking when they came up with that terrible ending.

Never seen that show. Would you recommend it? I like some sci-fi, but never was a huge star trek fan.

I don't think I'm getting to a turn tonight. I hit a brick wall after dinner and just want to veg on the couch. Even quiet turns in GS are mentally tiring for me, and I want to be fully awake when I play Morris.

[Cybvep]

I like sci-fi (both soft and hard, the big question is whether it's good) and BSG is one of the best TV shows I have watched in general. It has well-developed characters, covers important issues and is quite entertaining. The later seasons were a big disappointment for me, but compared with crap we often see in TV shows, relatively speaking, they were ok. Anyway, if you never saw it, you should really give it a try - start with the mini-series and the first episode - "33". Other sci-fi shows worth checking out are Stargate SG1/Atlantis (but you probably know it already; the first 6 seasons are very good IMO, after that, it gets worse), Firefly (very short, but it's a real blast - JUST DON'T START WITH SERENITY, which is a movie and it's much worse than the show) and Farscape (great characters, nice world-building, but the show is very uneven as far as its level of quality is concerned; it's bizzare at times, but this also makes it very unique).

If you want sth that is not sci-fi, try Rome (one of my favourite shows), Band of Brothers (if you don't know it already...) or The Pacific (very similar to BoB). Oh, and Damages - great show about lawyers, but with no courtroom action, interestingly.

Don't rush the updates - they will come when they come .