High tech air unit icon bug

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:37 pm

Hi. I have in my game now maxed out all air techs (6 in each area) and the German fighters have now a total tech of 16. But the icons for these fighters are still fighter_germany3 (propelled based fighter) instead of the ME262 jet fighter. The ME262 uses the file fighter_germany4.

So it seems the game never uses the file fighter_germany4 (and similar for e. g. Britain who have also maxed out their air techs). Is this a confirmed bug that will be fixed for v1.05? I think the jet fighters should be available when the dogfight tech reaches 6.

I haven't seen the Maus armor icon yet for the German armor units. I still see the Tiger icon. The armor units have a total tech of 18 (4, 6, 5 + 4 quality). So I don't expect it to be shown until I get tech 5 in blitzkried and/or tech 6 in tank destroyer. Is the armor_germany5 (Maus symbol) file used when the armor units have high enough tech?

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:30 pm

Currently we model unit graphics due to the # of upgrades it has compared to # upgrades available for the particular unit in game.

Happycat · Post by **Happycat** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:06 am

firepowerjohan wrote:Currently we model unit graphics due to the # of upgrades it has compared to # upgrades available for the particular unit in game.

Then on that basis, shouldn't Stauffenberg' s aircraft icon be the ME262?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:48 am

Johan forgot to mention there are upgrades that apply to your fighters from other categories - e.g. organisation etc.

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:14 pm

True and the upgrade for example for armour is chassi, gun and armour. So to represent that in a realistic way you have to tie each model to a certain upgrade and it gets a bit tricky though not impossible. However current system is more lean to the player since you know from the model roughly how strong the enemy is contrary to if it was tied to a certain technology.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:23 pm

I know all of this and at the moment my fighters have a total tech of 16. I have tech 6 dogfight, tech 6 strategic operations, tech 6 combat support and tech 4 organization. Shouldn't that be enough to get the highest tech air units? I have low naval techs since I only have one lab there and I had focus in submarines. I have surface ships tech 2, ASW tech 1 and submarines tech 4. I have radar tech 2. Could that be the reason?

What is the requirements to get the highest air unit icon? How many total techs do I need? I think it's weird I won't get it when I have the best techs possible in the air category and also a very high organization. I would think the icon shown for fighters should be based primarily upon dogfight. The jet fighters were superior because they had a better air attack factor, not because they had better range or ASW factors. So it's strange to me I can't see the ME262 symbol because I have low radar, ASW or surface ship techs.

I think the symbol shown for fighters should be based upon dogfight tech with some modifications if the other air techs are lower.
E. g. something like this:
fighter_germany4 needs dogfight 6 and combat support and strategic operations of 4 or more
fighter_germany3 needs dogfight 4 and combat support and strategic operations of 3 or more
fighter_germany2 needs dogfight 3 and combat support and strategic operations of 2 or more
fighter_germany1 needs dogfight 2 and combat support and strategic operations of 1 or more
fighter_germany0 at start symbol

For armor it should be something like this:
armor_germany5 (Maus) armor 6, blitzkrieg and tank destroyer of 5 or more
armor_germany4 (Tiger) armor 5, blitzkrieg and tank destroyer of 4 or more
armor_germany3 (Panther) armor 4, blitzkrieg and tank destroyer of 3 or more
armor_germany2 (Panzer IV) armor, blitzkrieg and tank destroyer of 2 or more
armor_germany1 (Panzer III) armor, blitzkrieg and tank destroyer of 1 or more
armor_germany0 (Panzer II) at start symbol

I think one shouldn't take tech increases from quality, radar, surface ships and ASW into account when
showing the symbol for a unit. E. g. the German tiger tank is still a tiger even if the quality of the German
units didn't increase to 4. The ME262 is still a ME262 even if the quality of the pilot is still only tech 3 or
the naval attack factors aren't increased due to not high surface ship tech.

I think only the techs from the main area (air for air units, armor for armor units) should decide which symbol is
shown. E. g. a German fighter with tech 6 dogfight and at least tech 5 in ground support and combat support is a
ME262 in my view.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:07 pm

firepowerjohan wrote:True and the upgrade for example for armour is chassi, gun and armour. So to represent that in a realistic way you have to tie each model to a certain upgrade and it gets a bit tricky though not impossible. However current system is more lean to the player since you know from the model roughly how strong the enemy is contrary to if it was tied to a certain technology.

Still the current system gives strange result. With max organization and 1/2/1 in armour I see Tigers as an icon. True at this stage of war it was the organization not tank construction that made German armoured divisions dangerous, but if we do not have any graphical representation of organization in infantry units, who benefit from it the same I'd personally prefer the icon to show technical development in a given field.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:52 pm

Borsook wrote:
firepowerjohan wrote:True and the upgrade for example for armour is chassi, gun and armour. So to represent that in a realistic way you have to tie each model to a certain upgrade and it gets a bit tricky though not impossible. However current system is more lean to the player since you know from the model roughly how strong the enemy is contrary to if it was tied to a certain technology.
Still the current system gives strange result. With max organization and 1/2/1 in armour I see Tigers as an icon. True at this stage of war it was the organization not tank construction that made German armoured divisions dangerous, but if we do not have any graphical representation of organization in infantry units, who benefit from it the same I'd personally prefer the icon to show technical development in a given field.

Are you sure you don't confuse the Panzer IV icon with the Tiger icon. They look almost similar. I think with the current rules it's possible to get a Panzer IV symbol if you have tech 4 in organization and tech 1,2,1 for the armor areas. But with the proposed new rules you should still be seeing the Panzer III symbol. The Panzer IV should be shown when all armor techs are 2 or higher.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:07 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
Borsook wrote:
firepowerjohan wrote:True and the upgrade for example for armour is chassi, gun and armour. So to represent that in a realistic way you have to tie each model to a certain upgrade and it gets a bit tricky though not impossible. However current system is more lean to the player since you know from the model roughly how strong the enemy is contrary to if it was tied to a certain technology.
Still the current system gives strange result. With max organization and 1/2/1 in armour I see Tigers as an icon. True at this stage of war it was the organization not tank construction that made German armoured divisions dangerous, but if we do not have any graphical representation of organization in infantry units, who benefit from it the same I'd personally prefer the icon to show technical development in a given field.
Are you sure you don't confuse the Panzer IV icon with the Tiger icon. They look almost similar. I think with the current rules it's possible to get a Panzer IV symbol if you have tech 4 in organization and tech 1,2,1 for the armor areas. But with the proposed new rules you should still be seeing the Panzer III symbol. The Panzer IV should be shown when all armor techs are 2 or higher.

No it's Tiger, it's impossible to confuse them as the previous icon seems to show a Panzer IVh. Panzer III is not represented in the game by any graphic sadly... The icon I mean is this one - armour_germany2 - clearly a Tiger with a shortened barrel.

BTW why is the first German icon in 1939 Panzer IV? It was at the time the rarest tank, Panzer II would be a better representation.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:40 pm

Borsook wrote:No it's Tiger, it's impossible to confuse them as the previous icon seems to show a Panzer IVh. Panzer III is not represented in the game by any graphic sadly... The icon I mean is this one - armour_germany2 - clearly a Tiger with a shortened barrel.

BTW why is the first German icon in 1939 Panzer IV? It was at the time the rarest tank, Panzer II would be a better representation.

OK. Then I understand you. You see the armor_germany2 icon and that's the correct one. I think Slitherine's problem was that they had a limited amount of models so they used the ones they had access to and therefore you have Tiger's twice. This won't be changed unless a modder replaces all the icons. There was a guy working on it, but it's been quiet for awhile. So maybe it takes longer than expected.

I think it would be better if the following symbols were used:
armor_germany0 Panzer II
armor_germany1 Panzer III (one of the variants)
armor_germany2 Panzer IV (one of the variants)
armor_germany3 Panther (panzer V)
armor_germany4 Tiger (panzer VI)
armor_germany5 King Tiger II

I think the King Tiger II is better represented for tech 6 armor than the Maus (Panzer VII). The Maus rarely saw combat action. Only a handful of these tanks were produced.

But these changes must be done by a modder with access to the right photos of these tanks.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:38 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
Borsook wrote:No it's Tiger, it's impossible to confuse them as the previous icon seems to show a Panzer IVh. Panzer III is not represented in the game by any graphic sadly... The icon I mean is this one - armour_germany2 - clearly a Tiger with a shortened barrel.

BTW why is the first German icon in 1939 Panzer IV? It was at the time the rarest tank, Panzer II would be a better representation.
OK. Then I understand you. You see the armor_germany2 icon and that's the correct one. I think Slitherine's problem was that they had a limited amount of models so they used the ones they had access to and therefore you have Tiger's twice. This won't be changed unless a modder replaces all the icons. There was a guy working on it, but it's been quiet for awhile. So maybe it takes longer than expected.

I think it would be better if the following symbols were used:
armor_germany0 Panzer II
armor_germany1 Panzer III (one of the variants)
armor_germany2 Panzer IV (one of the variants)
armor_germany3 Panther (panzer V)
armor_germany4 Tiger (panzer VI)
armor_germany5 King Tiger II

I think the King Tiger II is better represented for tech 6 armor than the Maus (Panzer VII). The Maus rarely saw combat action. Only a handful of these tanks were produced.

But these changes must be done by a modder with access to the right photos of these tanks.

Whatever the reasons Tiger icon appears too early and does not represent well the actual abilities of the unit. BTW personally I wouldn't use Tiger nor Tiger II as an icon as they were never main battle tank.

Also looking at your proposed list - Tiger and Panther should probably be reversed. Panther was used since mid-1943 while Tiger since 1942.