Contact and melee question

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:32 pm

On the French speaking forum, there is an interesting question see topic viewtopic.php?t=4668 for those who understand french .

I post this topic to help us understand what to do in such case because there is no concensus and it might come from the wording of the rules .

Imagine a group of pikemen in 4 ranks . They are charged from the right or the left by a BG of KN . The front rank of the pikemen is cotacted by the front corner of a KN base ( contact front corner against front edge ) , but another element of chaging KN, contacts the 3rd rank of the pikes, with one of his front edges against that Pike element side edge .

How do you resolve melee and why ?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:58 pm

On the French speaking forum, there is an interesting question see topic viewtopic.php?t=4668 for those who understand french .

I post this topic to help us understand what to do in such case because there is no concensus and it might come from the wording of the rules .

Imagine a group of pikemen in 4 ranks . They are charged from the right or the left by a BG of KN . The front rank of the pikemen is cotacted by the front corner of a KN base ( contact front corner against front edge ) , but another element of chaging KN, contacts the 3rd rank of the pikes, with one of his front edges against that Pike element side edge .

How do you resolve melee and why ?

I would have answered the query on the French forum but my French is largely Read-Only.

The answer (to the main query as asked on the French forum) is that it does not matter which base the chargers fight because the pikes are 4 ranks deep even if the the base contacted isnt the front rank one. (Assuming that it isn't a legitimate flank attack and therefore they don't turn). So the POA remains the same ++.

I expect this is another one that could usuefully go in the FAQ.

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:03 pm

I phrased y question badly , the second knight contacts the side edge with his front corner and is part of the same BG

, the KN BG coming not from the front, stricly speaking, but partially from the side . Everyboy agrees there is no flank contact .

well you can imagine the situation .

Would the KN count 2 bases for the fight or one?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:35 pm

bahdahbum wrote:I phrased y question badly , the second knight contacts the side edge with his front corner and is part of the same BG , the KN BG coming not from the front, stricly speaking, but partially from the side . Everyboy agrees there is no flank contact .

well you can imagine the situation .

Would the KN count 2 bases for the fight or one?

All bases in contact can (potentially) fight. Both sides fight with equal numbers.

So both sides get 4 dice and all the pike dice are on +2 POAs

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:12 pm

I suspect I may have overlooked that one in the past. The temptation is to think that because it is not a flank contact only the front element is a legitimate contact and fights. However, this means that the pike element contacted only on a side edge is still in contact and fights. The resulting conforming will (probably) break the 'pseudo flank contact' and a one base with overlaps results in the melee phase.

I remember an earlier discussion about BG's being contracted to minimise bases in the impact fight. The above interpretation very neatly offers a way round this dubious practice providing the contact is made at a slight angle so that the charger can hit a second ranker. This is all very neat.

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:37 pm

Just to be "heavy" and sure, both fight with "2" bases in melee and the pkes all get 4 ranks support

Sorry to repeat myself, but it is sure to have the right answer once and for all

What would happen if 3rd rank was impact foot

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:00 am

bahdahbum wrote:Just to be "heavy" and sure, both fight with "2" bases in melee and the pkes all get 4 ranks support

Impact. Yes

What would happen if 3rd rank was impact foot

I don't understand the significance of this question.

karakhanid · Post by **karakhanid** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:56 am

I think you are talking about this case:

Sorry no pikes[/img]

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:09 am

IMPACT the question in irrelevant

The picture is nice, If I had the needed material I would have done one so as to be pure water clear

It is a case that can happen fairly easely . I suppose in the case of the picture the attacking CV or KN Would get 3 "bases" so dice, the defender 2 bases, dice and if defender pkie he gets all 4 ranks if I understood correctly ( During IMPACT phase )

During melee, as people have to conform, wat would happen with the 3rd rank beig contacted ?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:30 am

In the Impact phase both sides count the same number of bases as fighting IIRC - and use the lower of charger and receiver if there is a difference.

As for conforming I think the mounted BG "flips" round to the front of the infantry BG.

stevoid · Post by **stevoid** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:35 am

bahdahbum wrote: I suppose in the case of the picture the attacking CV or KN Would get 3 "bases" so dice, the defender 2 bases, dice and if defender pkie he gets all 4 ranks if I understood correctly ( During IMPACT phase )

During melee, as people have to conform, wat would happen with the 3rd rank beig contacted ?

During impact all parties have the same number of bases fighting (p. 45), so no. If the number of bases eligible to fight is unequal then both sides fight with the lower number of bases - in this case 2 and therefore 4 dice each.

Cheers,

Steve

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:35 am

OK, I remember now, impact phase you have equal number of bases ...

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:53 am

Just to finish this off. We all seem agreed that this is effectively a 4 dice each frontal contact. How do we think the mounted confrom for melee? I note that the left hand base is over half way across the contacted foot. Does this mean that when they wheel to conform it slides across to contact the front of the currently unengaged base?
I.e. the melee is fought as

F F
K K K K

and not
F F
-- K K K K

(The -- is there just to get the alignment to look right)

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:07 am

rogerg wrote:Just to finish this off. We all seem agreed that this is effectively a 4 dice each frontal contact. How do we think the mounted confrom for melee? I note that the left hand base is over half way across the contacted foot. Does this mean that when they wheel to conform it slides across to contact the front of the currently unengaged base?
I.e. the melee is fought as

F F
K K K K

That looks correct to me.