Spartan Hamipoi (Skiratai)?

[johnpaul]

OK I’m looking forward to the release of FOG and with this would like to put together a Spartan army.

I have looked on the Xyston site miniatures and came across models labelled “Spartan Hamipoi (Skiratai)” these are new to me so my question is; what are they and how do I use them in FOG? Looking around the net it would seam that they were mountain men under Spartan rule, should I use them like Thracians?

Also for unites of Perioikoi what models do I use?

Thanks

JP

[nikgaukroger]

Sounds to me like the Skiratai would be some sort of Light Foot javelinmen - however, to be honest I don't really know, but I would suggest that Thracians would not be a good comparison.

Perioikoi would be hoplites - I don't think there was anything very distinctive about them although IIRC Spartans in general seem to have favoured the pylos style helmet.

Not a lot of use I'm afraid, but Greeks aren't my thing

[hammy]

In the DBM army lists early Greek armies are allowed Hamipoi as light javelinmen who can provide rear support to cavalry. I am not sure how historical this is or was but am fairly sure that the miniatures you are asking about are inteded for this role.

[rbodleyscott]

In the DBM army lists early Greek armies are allowed Hamipoi as light javelinmen who can provide rear support to cavalry. I am not sure how historical this is or was but am fairly sure that the miniatures you are asking about are inteded for this role.

We made an early design decision in FoG not to have mixed battle groups of cavalry and foot. This was for the sake of keeping the rules simple. If you want your Hamippoi to assist your cavalry they must do so as separate battle groups, but there are several ways the light foot can help the cavalry e.g. by screening them from enemy shooting, by disrupting the enemy with javelins before the cavalry charge them, or by fighting as an overlap to assist the cavalry in melee.

In FoG, light foot move at the same speed as cavalry, so they can easily keep up.

[johnpaul]

So I can use the Hampoli as light foot thanks.

For the Perioikoi are we saying I should use standard Spartan hoplites? If so is there any easy way to distinguish between them? Say by using white markings instead of red?

[honvedseg]

Spartiates are ususally depicted with red cloaks or capes, and were "professional" soldiers. Perioikoi, on the other hand, were "weekend warriors" like the Hoplites of most other Greek states. You could probably use other Greek Hoplite figures, except for the distinctive somewhat "conical" helmet shape.

[LambertSimnel]

Would I be right in thinking that the periokoi would have Lambdas on their shields?

[sotaisho]

Perioikoi roughly means 'dwellers around and about'. They were subject to Spartan rule but did not have citizenship. As for appearence they would have been identical to the other 'real' spartans, same helmets (the Pylos, in both bronze and felt) and the shields (from the end of the fifth century) would have used the lambda as a device. They were indeed 'part time' soldiers like most Greek hoplites so their performence in battle was probably of a similar standard, although they almost certainly had Spartan officers, (like the Helots). The only 'visual' distinguishing feature that i can think of between them and the real Spartans was the laters preference for (very) long hair. This could be represented with a few bareheaded figs in the Spartan units to mark them out as the 'real deal' but i guess that only works in 28mm! sorry hope this helps

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

So I can use the Hampoli as light foot thanks.

Sekunda states, quoting Xenophon's Hellenica, (p53 The Ancient Greeks) that the 600 Skiritai were not absorbed into into the hoplites following the Spartan re-organisations after Mantineia (418BC) but were converted to hamippoi and served alongside the 600 cavalry. However after Leuctra (371BC) the Skiritai achieved independence and at 2nd Mantineia (362BC) the Spartans had no hamippoi.

Regards

Edward

[spike]

In the DBM army lists early Greek armies are allowed Hamipoi as light javelinmen who can provide rear support to cavalry. I am not sure how historical this is or was but am fairly sure that the miniatures you are asking about are inteded for this role.

We made an early design decision in FoG not to have mixed battle groups of cavalry and foot. This was for the sake of keeping the rules simple. If you want your Hamippoi to assist your cavalry they must do so as separate battle groups, but there are several ways the light foot can help the cavalry e.g. by screening them from enemy shooting, by disrupting the enemy with javelins before the cavalry charge them, or by fighting as an overlap to assist the cavalry in melee.

In FoG, light foot move at the same speed as cavalry, so they can easily keep up.

Richard,

I remembered this subject from a while back, and out of interest I tried out mutually supporting Greek Cav and LF, tonight at the club.

Other than I was looking in the wrong bit of the rules (Cav can interpenetrate, but not charge through LF was my initial reading in the charges phase, but it states this earlier in the rules - OOPS). It works up to a point, as you still have to expose the Cav to shooting, unless you let the LF flee through the Cv first and then the Cv can charge on a following turn- So less effective that it could be as it requires a complient opponent to achieve success.

The situation was the Ancient Brit. 4x Chariot BG charged the skirmishing LF in front of the Cv, to stop the shooting from the javelins, and they hit the 2 bg's of 4xCv behind and the chariots lost the combat 3 hits to 4, The chariots then had the misfortune to lose a base, and went disrupted, and lost their General to an 11 on the kill general roll. It was all over after the impact where they lost another base and went fragged.
Lucky Greeks at impact carried the day, over a rather miffed British CinC.

Had the dice been more even, i think the chariots would probably have lost as it was 1 Bg Chariots vs 2 Cv, with no one with an advantage in terms of POA.

Spike

[rbodleyscott]

Seems reasonable.