weapons range: 0 versus 1

[blindsey]

Question: Why do both infantry and AFV's have a range of 0? Tanks can stand back and fire on infantry positions from a distance, and not receive return fire. Shouldn't Infantry be 0 and AFV's with larger caliber weapons be 1 (or more)? I remember in PG that tanks eventually could stand off and shoot at infantry. Has anyone tried this in PC? I couldn't find this topic trying to do a search, so if someone knows of a thread where they discuss this, please let me know. Thanks!
Regards,
Bob

[MikeAP]

The equipment file can be modified with Microsoft Excel or any other spreadsheet program. Try it for yourself


Edit - I'm *sort of* working on a Modern Mod and I was thinking of adjusting the fire ranges to simulate something on a much smaller scale.

[Chris10]

problem is if you give tanks a range of 1...nobody will shoot back..not infantry..no other tanks...nobody
they actually would work like artillery..only they would not provide defensive fire nor supress the enemy cause they are not artillery class...

So it could very well be that any units other than artillery or flak having a range of more than 0 would be highly counterproductive to gameplay...do you catch my drift ?...

[blindsey]

Hi Mke
I understand how to do it, I have my own modified equipment file, etc. What I need to know how the game mechanics work. In other words is it feasible, will it work or not? So I guess I am asking does it work like PG did, however it sounds like it doesn't, per Chris' reply. Anyone know of a thread where the developers discuss this topic?

[VPaulus]

I think this was debated a lot of time ago, far beyond until the forum search engine works. With the forum upgrade we lost all the past threads indexing.
Maybe Razz or El_Condoro remember when was this debated.

[airbornemongo101]

Here..from rhe common asked questions thread:


viewtopic.php?t=29813

[blindsey]

Thanks Mongo
Sounds like they started to debate it but never finished the debate. So instead of ranged weapons we have to model it using initiative? That is the only solution?

[airbornemongo101]

I think so,personally

[Razz1]

You can use it as long as the enemy tanks and AT have the same range. Then they will shoot back.

You can do a small test.

Allot of people did not lake this in the Panzer General series. It's also more complex.

They developers wanted to make the game true to the original PG.

[Chris10]

You can use it as long as the enemy tanks and AT have the same range. Then they will shoot back.

You can do a small test.

Allot of people did not lake this in the Panzer General series. It's also more complex.

They developers wanted to make the game true to the original PG.

which basically means you have to make ALL land units (exept flak,artillery) range 1 or they dont shoot back at each other..which would break gameplay balance between ground units due to multiple following effects... which ultimately means you can let everything at 0 range which has the same effect: enabling units to shoot back at each other...

Another option is to make a switch unit for each unit you want to shoot at 1 range but after fireing it will stay in that mode until next turn...

Hmmm..right now I dont see any useful gameplay enhancement...realism is not always best..this is especially true for hexbased wargames which are highly abstract to say at least

[El_Condoro]

In PG2 some direct fire at range 2 was possible (e.g. for 88mm equipped vehicles) but PG2 was on a smaller scale generally than PG and it wasn't liked by everyone as Razz mentioned. e.g. A unit could be surrounded by units with zero range and then the big guns behind to provide even more firepower. Personally, I didn't have a problem with that but some did.

Anyway, in PzC there is no such mechanic for direct fire - firing beyond an adjacent hex is done by artillery and naval units. Longer range is modelled by them having a higher initiative (they get some shots in before closing with the enemy). You can increase the range of tanks, for example, to 2+ but then they will fire over forests, mountains, cities etc and it won't be direct fire. The target will not fire back, as said above.

This has been the main reason why I have been skeptical about the viability of small scale mods (skirmishes) - long-range, direct fire cannot be adequately modelled in PzC.

[Radoye]

OK i did some experiments:

- R1 vs R1 acts exactly like R0 vs R0
- R0 can and will attack R1, R1 fires back
- R1 can and will attack R0, R0 does not fire back

I can see a lot of interesting possibilities with this setup, however there needs to be one little adjustment to make it work just right: R1 advantage should have effect only in open terrain, in closed terrain R0 should be able to return fire when attacked by R1 units.

Something for the next patch perhaps?

[bornbad]

It would be fair for Infantry to make R1 Weapons switchable for R1 and R0.
R1 should only be normal hard attack with very low soft attack (no MG range).
R0 all normal attributes.

[Chris10]

guys..as Condo already said, all this is what initiative is for...ground units with higher fireing range have higher initiative and fire before units with less range and lower initiative