GS 2.1 win/loss records--help up collect the data!

[Crazygunner1]

Hello guys, have a couple of games to report, hope we are still posting here?

Rollo axis vs Crazygunner1 allies - allied major victory
Crazygunner1 axis vs Rollo allies - axis major victory
Crazygunner1 axis vs Zechi allies - ongoing
Supermax axis vs Crazygunner1 - ongoing

I would say that rollo has a solid tactical knowledge but is new to the game, so would probably rate him as beginner.
I would rate myself as a veteran player

There it is...

[JimR]

If I ever win a game I'll be happy to announce the results publicly! For now, though, it looks like they'll have to be private messages...

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Hello guys, have a couple of games to report, hope we are still posting here?
Rollo axis vs Crazygunner1 allies - allied major victory
Crazygunner1 axis vs Rollo allies - axis major victory

This result is quite interesting. The victory level is the same with Crazygunner wining a major victory with both sides. I guess that's an indication the game balance can't be that bad. :p The result indicates a difference in GS v2.1 playing experience.

If the game was not well balanced one would expect to see something like Crazy vs Roll: Axis minor victory or Allied minor victory. Roll vs Crazy: Allied major victory or Allied strategic victory.

[JimR]

Diplomaticus, will you be posting a summary of results soon? It would be good to know what the win/loss ratio for Axis and Allies has been among beta testers, for assessing the new version's play balance.

[Diplomaticus]

You're right, Jim. I think we have enough results in to tabulate some meaningful data. Give me a few days and I'll see what I can do.

[richardsd]

do you have richardsd Allies minor victory of peterf Axis

last turn victory for the Alleis after a pretty good run in weather wise, not agame the Allies ever thought they would win

[Cybvep]

So... When can we expect to see some data?

[rkr1958]

I can't wait to see the summaries that Cliff has put together for us ...

I wanted to relay that I feel we have GS balanced about as good as we're going to get it. Based on our collective playtesting experience I believe there are 6 viable strategies that the axis player can follow:

1. Historical - Sitz
2. Historical - Blitz
3. Sea Lion with '41 Barbarossa.
4. Sea Lion with '42 Barbarossa.
5. Close the Med with '41 Barbarossa.
6. Close the Med '42 Barbarossa.

Of course the exact details of each strategy can vary, for example, such as whether of not the axis player invades Norway or Greece in 1 (Historical - Sitz).

The success of each strategy I feel will vary some game to game based on game events; BUT is mostly determined by the skill and experienced of the players involved. I feel that the axis player has less margin for error than the allied player; but I also feel that games played between two experienced and equally skilled players will typically go down to the wire given that the axis player is not guilty of any significant errors.

I do think that strategies 1 & 2, at least for me, offer the best chance of an axis victory. It would be nice to have the game samples to show (or refute) that claim; but I'm afraid it would take years of plays and dozens of samples per strategy to statistically evaluate that claim.

I'd be interested in what others have to say about this (which is why I posted it).

[Morris]

I am afraid Diplom is too busy to do this since he has been absent for personal reason for a long time . Actually as Ronnie's words ,it will take years to take the data . At present , I think the GS 2.1 is giving Allies an advantage .

[JimWC]

I have to agree with Morris that the Allies have a significant advantage in 2.1. A very experienced player may do as well with the Axis as with the Allies, but any error on the Axis' part is fatal. In 4 2.1 games I have completed so far, 2 as Allies and 2 as Axis, the Allies have won every time, at levels from ultimate to marginal. In my 3 games currently underway, I'd lay odds that the Allies will win in every one, not for sure, but likely. It's not just the strategy, but also the execution.

When you balance a game based on how designers do, you're not getting an accurate reading of whether it's balanced for the non-expert player. Long ago, when I was in the game business, I always wanted to see how neophytes did with a game before saying it was balanced.

[Samhain]

Very true. New players should start by playing against the computer and as the allies. The computer could make it very near to Omsk and you still could get a minor allied victory.

[avoran]

It's not just 'new' players. I've played a couple of dozen PBEM games by now and I still ALWAYS lose as the Axis, unless my opponent is a virtual newbie.

It gets a bit boring.

[Morris]

It's not just 'new' players. I've played a couple of dozen PBEM games by now and I still ALWAYS lose as the Axis, unless my opponent is a virtual newbie.

It gets a bit boring.

The best result for Axis is even ! It is true as real history . So when we fight as Axis , just compare with eachother who will be dead later

[JimWC]

It's not just 'new' players. I've played a couple of dozen PBEM games by now and I still ALWAYS lose as the Axis, unless my opponent is a virtual newbie.

It gets a bit boring.

Yes, I'm certainly not a new player -- many PBEM games on all versions against many opponents since 2008. The original game was tough for the Axis, but the range of probable results was broader. I love the GS version, but it takes a big mistake on the part of the Allies for the Axis to do better than draw. That may be realistic, but does not make for the best game. I keep playing for the challenge of someday winning with the Axis, but I think a lot of players will just give up.

[gsmart04]

It's not just 'new' players. I've played a couple of dozen PBEM games by now and I still ALWAYS lose as the Axis, unless my opponent is a virtual newbie.

It gets a bit boring.

Yes, I'm certainly not a new player -- many PBEM games on all versions against many opponents since 2008. The original game was tough for the Axis, but the range of probable results was broader. I love the GS version, but it takes a big mistake on the part of the Allies for the Axis to do better than draw. That may be realistic, but does not make for the best game. I keep playing for the challenge of someday winning with the Axis, but I think a lot of players will just give up.

This is happening to me too.