Potential Cheese

[stevoid]

Hi,

Richard cleared up some issues on the following thread (with a possible addition to a FAQ pending):

viewtopic.php?t=3868&start=30

This led us to experiment with some situations and we thought that there was potential cheese in the situation where a BG strikes two enemy BGs at an angle such that one is contacted only on a front corner by a front edge and the other is contacted on a front edge by a corner such that the charger cannot conform in the charger's manoeuvre phase.

This leads to the charged enemy being forced to conform, and depending on the angle of incidence and the width of the charged BGs, this can result in those charged BGs being swung out of position by quite a long way (which we thought cheesy).

At first we thought that they might conform by moving bases the minimum as per the rules and thus ending up in an echeloned formation but then the post v6 amendments say that "...each file steps forward...". Thus the charged BG maintains its formation but possibly at the expense of being dragged a long way out of position and facing in a different direction etc.

One possible solution would be to say that "BGs in close combat must conform to enemy bases in contact unless that contact was initiated by chargers who themselves were unable to conform in their manoeuvre phase." or something like that. Then the charged player would have the choice of conforming or letting things stand and thereby avoid some potential cheese.

We initially wondered why conform at all as the rules handle offset combats etc very well, but then we decided that those offset positions inhibit other mechanisms like feeding in and moving to overlap.

Finally, the rules state that the stepping forwards to conform may result in enemy being contacted - does this then become a charge and when is that resolved, or if not a charge, does this then become an exception to Moving Into Contact With Enemy Battle Groups?

Cheers,

Steve

[terrys]

This leads to the charged enemy being forced to conform, and depending on the angle of incidence and the width of the charged BGs, this can result in those charged BGs being swung out of position by quite a long way (which we thought cheesy).

This can't happen if all defending BGs are in line. If the defenders aren't in line, then it is possible for them to be dragged out of their current position. If the BGs aren't in line, then being forced to conform in a later move doesn't 'normally' cause a problem - if it does, then consider it one of the downsides of not keeping a solid line.
Friendly BG's must slide to make room, so you can't stop yourself from conforming.

We initially wondered why conform at all as the rules handle offset combats etc very well, but then we decided that those offset positions inhibit other mechanisms like feeding in and moving to overlap.

Correct

Finally, the rules state that the stepping forwards to conform may result in enemy being contacted - does this then become a charge and when is that resolved, or if not a charge, does this then become an exception to Moving Into Contact With Enemy Battle Groups?

It becomes a 'move' to contact (i.e. NOT a 'charge'), in a similar way that you can move to an overlap position to join a melee.[/list]

[stevoid]

This leads to the charged enemy being forced to conform, and depending on the angle of incidence and the width of the charged BGs, this can result in those charged BGs being swung out of position by quite a long way (which we thought cheesy).

This can't happen if all defending BGs are in line. If the defenders aren't in line, then it is possible for them to be dragged out of their current position. If the BGs aren't in line, then being forced to conform in a later move doesn't 'normally' cause a problem - if it does, then consider it one of the downsides of not keeping a solid line.
Friendly BG's must slide to make room, so you can't stop yourself from conforming.

Perhaps a case of one man's cheese being another's just desserts

Finally, the rules state that the stepping forwards to conform may result in enemy being contacted - does this then become a charge and when is that resolved, or if not a charge, does this then become an exception to Moving Into Contact With Enemy Battle Groups?

It becomes a 'move' to contact (i.e. NOT a 'charge'), in a similar way that you can move to an overlap position to join a melee.[/list]

Mmmm, but the bit at the top of p.37 (v6) seems to be saying that the only move to contact allowed in the manoeuvre phase is into an overlap position, not to contact (fresh) enemy. It explicitly says that any other contact must wait until the next impact phase.

Cheers,

Steve

[terrys]

Mmmm, but the bit at the top of p.37 (v6) seems to be saying that the only move to contact allowed in the manoeuvre phase is into an overlap position, not to contact (fresh) enemy. It explicitly says that any other contact must wait until the next impact phase.

This isn't a 'move' it's a 'conform to enemy in close combat'

[stevoid]

Mmmm, but the bit at the top of p.37 (v6) seems to be saying that the only move to contact allowed in the manoeuvre phase is into an overlap position, not to contact (fresh) enemy. It explicitly says that any other contact must wait until the next impact phase.

This isn't a 'move' it's a 'conform to enemy in close combat'

Hi Terry,

It was your use of the term 'move to contact' that prompted me to point out that overlapping was ok and contact was not, i.e. it is not analogous to the situation I am trying to clarify.

That aside, you are saying that if a conform move contacts fresh enemy (as per my description above, i.e. an enemy BG other than the one being conformed to) then this is dealt with in the melee phase and not treated as a charge etc. Therefore, overlaps and multiple ranks may apply immediately and impact attributes won't come into play.

Thank you for clarifying this. I hope you consider adding this to the FAQ.

Personally, I think the post v6 amendment for Conforming that requires files to step forward should only allow such step forwards to contact the BG being conformed to and not fresh enemy.

Cheers,

Steve

[terrys]

Personally, I think the post v6 amendment for Conforming that requires files to step forward should only allow such step forwards to contact the BG being conformed to and not fresh enemy.

The probelm with this is that you wouldn't be able to conform into a BG that was just providing an overlap - leaving the charger at a serious disadvantage, when the position doesn't warrant it.